Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | miekel | 184125 | ||
where does the devil/lucifer come from, and is there evidence in the understanding that he was an angel kicked out from heaven, or was he part of the creation |
||||||
2 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | jonp | 184133 | ||
Hi It is not strictly true to say that the majority of scholars see Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as referring to Satan. The majority opinion among leading scholars is actually that those Scriptures refer to ancient kings who made grandiose claims for themselves, claims which the prophets derided. That Satan was a created spiritual being is necessarily so. But he appears from 'nowhere' in the Fruitful Plain of Eden where he is seen to be in opposition to God (just as the angelic court are assumed in God's words 'Let us make man in OUR image' (Genesis 1.26). We are given a recognition that such spiritual beings exist but not given the details. They came before the creation of heaven (sky) and earth. (Although some would see them as included in Genesis 1.1). His minions crop up in Genesis 6.1-4 and he suddenly appears in Job 1-2, as an angelic being, a son of the elohim, and having to submit to God's authority. In 1 Chronicles 21 he leads David astray. In Zechariah 3 he is once again seen as in opposition to God. In Daniel 10 we again see something of his minions. It is in the New Testament that his opposition to God's ways comes out more emphatically. But his origin is never explained. Jesus tells us that he 'fell from Heaven' and Revelation 12 indicates that he dragged others with him. We must beware of seeing him as almost on a par with God. Powerful though he is he is no match for God and he knows it. Why does God allow Satan to continue in action? As well ask why God allows us still to be in action. It is all within His overall plan. But when Jesus came he was in a sense bound because the Kingly Rule of God had come (Mark 3.27; Matthew 12.28-29 compare Luke 11.22). This binding of Satan is also referred to in Revelation 20.1-3. For his release for a little while compare Revelation 9.1-13. We must recognise that when speaking of details dealing with Satan they cannot be taken too literally. Satan is a spiritual being. He cannot be bound with a chain, be put in prison, or indeed be affected by a literal lake of fire. These are all pictures illustrating how God deals with him in His own way. Job makes clear that he is under God's authority. He cannot do just what he wants. But he is exceedingly powerful (Jude 9). Jesus claims a putting of him under further restraint. He has him under restraint even now. If he had not had him under restraint the church would not have survived for five minutes. And yet his influence is continually felt by the church (1 Peter 5.8). That is why we need to be clothed in the armour of God for our weapons against him are faith, the word of God, a knowledge of the truth, And prayer. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||
3 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | humbledbyhisgrace | 184152 | ||
Greetings Jonp! If you would, can you please explain what you mean by the following? What angelic court is assumed in Genesis 1:26? And also you said "If he had not had him under restraint the church would not have survived for five minutes." Are you referring to the "Church" the body of Christ that which Jesus Christ is the head (Ephesians 1:22-23, Ephesians 4:15, Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18)? If so, what are you basing this on? Thanks and God Bless, Steve |
||||||
4 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | jonp | 184163 | ||
Hi The angelic court is detailed for example in 1 KIngs 22.19; Daniel 7.9-10. By the church I meant the infant church and I am basing it on what Satan did to Job's family, on Jude's warning in Jude 9, on Ephesians 6.10-18 which says that without the armour of God we cannot hope to stand against Him, and on the havoc wrought by Satan in Revelation 12.13-17 even though he was under restraint. The point was that without the Lord's protection and the armour of God we are helpless before him. By the grace of God we have both. That is why we survive in the face of his great power. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||
5 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | humbledbyhisgrace | 184178 | ||
Greetings Jonp! Thanks for responding! Let me respond to the question regarding the church and satan first. I agree, our only hope against satan and evil is in God. I would think it foolish of us to think on our own we could stand against satan or even our own sinful nature without Him. The word clearly teaches us the lost are dead in their sins, a slave to sin, their hearts hardened against God, unable to please Him and cannot even subject himself to God (Ephesians 2:1; Romans 6:17, John 8:34, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Ephesians 4:18, Romans 8:7-8). So I think it’s safe to say without God we cannot stand against satan. From scripture it would appear to me satan has no opposition from us at all without God interceding. What I would disagree with is the teaching that the church (the body of Christ) even in it’s infancy as you say would not have lasted 5 minutes. The fact is, the head of the Church is Christ Himself (Ephesians 1:22, Ephesians 4:15, Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18). There is no denying satan is powerful, but to say Christ church was or is in danger of not lasting because of him I fear is misleading and could be confusing to some. This could lead to the belief / teaching satan is on equal footing with God which in turn could lead to all kinds of false teachings and beliefs (My opinion). I don’t believe that was your intent so please understand my motives are to try and clarify for myself and others reading along. Your thoughts on this? In regards to “the angelic court are assumed in God's words 'Let us make man in OUR image' (Genesis 1.26)”. Genesis 1:26-27 (NASB) 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. I don’t see where the text allows for an “angelic court” interpretation. Verse 26 says “…Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness…” Verse 27 says “And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him …”. We know from scripture God created man and He created man in His image. Let me make sure I’m not misinterpreting you. When you say “the angelic court are assumed in God's words 'Let us make man in OUR image'” are you saying that it is assumed that God was talking to the angels when he said “Us and Our”? The scriptures you reference (1 Kings 22.19, Daniel 7.9-10) does not support that assumption nor does the text of Genesis 1:26-27 in my opinion. I’m not aware of any scripture that would lead us to believe man was created in the image of God and the angels nor that the angels had any part in the creation of man. Your thoughts? God Bless, Steve |
||||||
6 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | jonp | 184180 | ||
Hi. The whole point of my statement was that it is only because the church is 'in Christ' that Satan cannot touch it. The reason that that little group of people survived was because they were under the protection of God in Christ. I have constantly pointed out that Satan must obey God's authority, and that Jesus had 'bound ' him. I cannot see how I can make it clearer that Satan is very much subsidiary to God, and can do absolutely nothing without God's permission. We cannot talk about God and Satan in the same breath. God is God and Satan is only one of 'the sons of the elohim' (Job 1-2). But that being said as a created being he is very powerful (Jude 9). We must therefore be thankful that our lives are hid with Christ in God' and have been transported into the kingdom of His beloved Son where all he can do shoot his arrows at us. I have dealt with the other part of your question in another posting. Perhaps you will look that up and then come back with any questions. I do not want to overheat the matter. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||
7 | origin of the devil | Ezek 28:13 | humbledbyhisgrace | 184184 | ||
Greetings Jonp! Yes! This is exactly why the statement I questioned concerned me. This is the type of message that should be delivered. As stated, the other post/statement would leave one questioning the ability of Christ to uphold His Church, His people that He died for! Or even perhaps a false assumption it would be up to them and not Christ! Thank you for clearing this up! And Praise God for a saviour that has saved a people that could not save themselves! I will see your other post as you suggested. Thank you again! God Bless, Steve |
||||||