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NASB | Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the [preaching of the] message concerning Christ. |
Bible Question:
Dear Joe, I wasn't defending the Mormons peeing at all. I agree with you 100 percent that God works internally thru His Word as well as externally through others to teach us His Word. I have no problem with that assertion at all. I never said that it wasn't important. I said that it was not absolutely necessary, it is not essential, it is not a requirement. It is 'icing on the cake.' And, again, in order to make a determination of whether you are being taught 'sound' doctrine from another human being, one would do well to first study the doctrines directly from the Word relying on the Holy Spirit's illumination and one would do well to know something about the human being doing the teaching. If you have a problem trusting the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truth, then your problem is with Him, Joe, not with me. I believe what He says. It is a process. And truth is embodied in Jesus Christ. Yes, Joe, 'the external teaching of others HELPS hold us to sound doctrine as we biblically evaluate what is said.' But to do so, we must have a plumb line. How do you know whether what is said is sound, brother? Just because it is taught? You frequently remind me that you feel that all that I know is what I have been taught by those from DTS. If that were true, which it is not (I grew up in NY), then you would have no right, sir, to question my beliefs because I would have been doing EXACTLY what you are insisting here. I would have been sitting under the external teaching of people who claim, right or wrong, to be teaching the truth of God's Word. Joe, you can't have it both ways, brother. You can't criticize me (or you shouldn't) for believing a certain way BECAUSE of what I have been taught and then turn around and say that EXTERNAL teaching is just as viable as what the Holy Spirit does? There has got to be a plumb line somewhere, Joe. For me, it is God's Word. Yes, there is a dynamic. But, if forced to choose, I would rather trust the Holy Spirit then men. Fortunately, brother, I don't often have to make that choice. In Christ, Bill Mc |
Bible Answer: Your Mormon comment simply reveals your scoffing of anything of intellectual value. How typical. Preaching/teaching is NOT "icing on the cake." It is a God-ordained, essential aspect of our Christian lives. Except in rare cirumstances where such teaching is completely unavailable (like being in solitary confinement in Vietnam or something along those lines), it is the way God has intended for Christians to grow. This is why your view bothers me so much. You take all that the New Testament reveals as God-ordained and works commanded by God of believers and put them in the category of "helpful suggestions." We are commanded to teach sound doctrine, hold to sound doctrine, and to toss people out of fellowship who refuse to adhere to sound doctrine. Doctrine is TEACHING, Bill. That is what the word means. How in the world can you dare call Holy Spirit-inspired teaching "icing on the cake" that you can do without? "That's okay, God; I don't feel the need to listen to what you are saying through this guy; I prefer just you and me and my Bible. Let's do it my way." Why don't you look at the whole of my argument rather than taking one sentence out of context? I said there is a DYNAMIC between the two. Go back and read it again and comment on the point I was actually making. It is you who thinks it is a great thing for new converts to abandon any external teaching whatsoever, thereby intentionally choosing one over the other. You are so prideful to trust that you have such a clear ear for what the Holy Spirit is saying. The fact is that you still sin, Bill. Accept that your tendency to sin will often cloud your mind of what is from the Holy Spirit and what is the thing that Bill wishes the Holy Spirit were saying. I do the same thing, as does every Christian to a greater or lesser degree. In this case, it is your prideful anti-intellectualism that has you so completely unteachable, no matter how many verses are cited pointing you out to be WRONG. You write: "You can't criticize me (or you shouldn't) for believing a certain way BECAUSE of what I have been taught and then turn around and say that EXTERNAL teaching is just as viable as what the Holy Spirit does?" The external teaching is ALSO what the Holy Spirit does. There's your problem in one sentence. You are not open to correction from anyone, and that is sin. --Joe! |