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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Continuing search why 3 days in earth? | Matthew | gracefull | 93874 | ||
Hi Searcher, His body was in a cave tomb. That being a tomb,is still buried and if there were no other verses to compare with, this conclusion could be argued. But the problem I see here is that scripture states Jesus went to Hell in Acts 2. Prophesy fortold it and prophesy, according to Acts 2, was fulfilled. Jesus did say "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." Luke 23:46 Look at 'commend' in Strong's #3908 It means to entrust, to deposit, commit to one's charge. May I suggest that this is not saying Jesus'spirit went to Heaven. Rather it means He entrusted His spirit to God the Father. He had completed His task and now the Father would be the one who confirmed Him. God indeed confirmed Him by raising Jesus on the third day. Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. God bless |
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82 | Jesus the Christ glorified! | Matt 10:28 | gracefull | 93864 | ||
So are all the other denominations in some form or fashion..They just don't admit it. No organization has found 'perfect truth'. God bless |
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83 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93863 | ||
Hi Ed, You asked.. "Do we not receive life from God before we have faith? Do we not receive breath from God before we have faith. Was not the ten lepers healed without faith?" No. We receive nothing from God without faith. Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. The Word is unprofitable when not mixed with faith. Luke 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. Lepers were not allowed to go into the city, much less the temple. Jesus said...Go show yourselves to the priests. Ed, would it not take faith to do that? You said... Explain now Lazarus was exercising his faith before Jesus called him forth from the grave. Scripture does not state that faith was present, but it had to be because Hebrews 4:2 says the Word must be mixed with faith. Also Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Just one more, because this debate could go on forever... Moses and the buring bush...God chose to reveal Himself and speak His Word to Moses through the buring bush but Moses RECEIVED the promise when he obeyed by faith. He took up the rod and went in obedience. Because he went in faith, God was able to manifest Himself to Pharoah and Israel. Had Moses not believed God's Word... You said... "Just as I have demonstrated this principle is untrue and since this is foundational to WOF teaching we can also know WOF teaching is in error." You gave examples where the statement of the presence of faith is not stated. You have not disproved that we receive nothing from God except by faith in His Word. Name one thing we receive from God that is NOT by faith? Salvation? Our provision of food, clothing, dwelling? Jesus said seek first the Kingdom of God...and all these things will be added. Do you not have to BELIEVE that to obey and receive? To step out and be annointed for ministry do we not have to do so by faith before God begins to bless the ministry? We are enven instructed to 'seek the best gifts...'How would we do that? Ask in faith doubting not.. Nothing is received from God apart from faith in His Word..Whether it is my faith, your faith or some intercessor somwhere praying in the Spirit for you and you don't even know it. God bless |
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84 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93770 | ||
Hello Figgy, We will have to talk tomorrow on this to get indepth. To begin with let me point out that Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. What does this verse say? Without faith we can receive nothing from God. To establish this principle first is critical to understanding WOF teaching. The second is 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: The reason I want to start here is because I am reasonably sure this would start us off, at least, in agreement. The short answer is faith is always necessary for healing. I do not, and neither does WOF teach that OUR faith exclusively is the way to healing. WOF is full gospel and believes in the operation of the gifts..gift of healings, etc. WOF AND I believe another's faith can produce healing. The flip side of the same coin, God expects His children to study the Word and allow our faith to be developed by the Holy Spirit and the Word. I realize the posts leaned in that direction because of the question asked concerning some taking offense at being told their faith should be developed. WOF is STRONG on personal relationship and maturing in God. Odviously WOF believes in laying on of hands for healing. They do so consistently. But at the same time they teach and encourage personal faith development. This aspect of WOF is to be admired. They are extremely discipling oriented. As far as a teacher or preacher telling someone they need to develop their faith..this could be a front for a lack of annointing, but it also could be a word from the Lord. We should not become offended at being told to do something God expects us to do. They very well could be hearing from the Holy Spirit. But if we take offense...this is never the response a Christian should have. If the minister is incorrect, God would have us pray for them, but first we need to allow the Holy Spirit to examine our own heart. God bless Purhaps we can talk more tomorrow, |
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85 | Continuing search why 3 days in earth? | Matthew | gracefull | 93754 | ||
Hi Searcher, Once..Strong's #530 'hapax' and is the same word used in Acts 18 Christ having died 'once' for sin. Actually, this does not sound 'temporal' as was stated on radioman2's post...sounds permanent like Jesus' death for sin...once for all.. How does that alter the spirits in prison? You asked... How does "preached to the spirits in prison" mean He preached in hell? The context of these scriptures are emediately following physical death. Acts 2:24-27 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 1 Peter 3:18-20 ...Jesus..put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit..went...and preached to the souls (or spirits) in prison. Where would disobedient souls go to prison at? The Bible only speaks of Heaven and Hell as places where human spirits can go. Where do you think this might be? I only know of two dwellings for spirits of men..Heaven and Hell. These were not in Heaven for two reasons...#1 Jesus went to Hell first, then ascended to Heaven. God bless |
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86 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | gracefull | 93753 | ||
Hello Truthfinder You said... Gen. 2:17 “But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” Thus God says Adam would die. What though did Satan tell Eve? He told her at Gen. 3:4 “At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.” I personally choose to believe what God told Adam and NOT what Satan told Eve. I believe what God said as well...The DAY YOU EAT...YOU SHALL SURELY DIE. They died that day. Their fellowship with God was broken. You said... . If we read Gen. 2:7, we learn what life is. Thus the opposite of life is death. Logical? Certainly it is. Gen 2:7 tells us, "And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." What consciousness did Adam have when he was a dead soul, a few momements earlier? I have no reason to conclude that he had any! What conclusion am I to draw but at dying Adam returned to total unconsciousness as he was before becoming a “living soul”? First... you say that before God breathed into Adam's nostrils he was a dead 'soul'. No, He was a lifeless body. God breathed His life into Adam.. and Adam became a living spirit. A spirit housed within a body...then at the fall, this spirit was seperated from fellowship with the Father. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Peter says that Jesus body was put to death, His flesh... and that His spirt WENT.... God bless |
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87 | Any scriptural support? | Matthew | gracefull | 93749 | ||
Hi Eadioman2, Thank you for this post. It gives us options to look at. Question #1 "'The latter (2) is preferred because of the temporal indications in v. 20a" Who once were disobedient...? I can see how this terminology would not refer to the angels because they cannot repent. Their future is sealed. Is # 2 actually saying that Jesus' spirit entered Noah's spirit and preached? This is more theologically challenging than Jesus Himself preaching to these...This verse does not say the Holy Spirit preached...it says Jesus' spirit. How does that read? '...but He Jesus was made alive in the spirit, in which He went and, through Noah, preached to the spirits in prison...' This, I believe, does violence to these verses. I submit a third... Christ preaches to the unrighteous humans, now dead and confined in hell, who lived in the days of Noah. Lazarus and the rich man proves there was a place where those unrighteous dead were held. This verse does not state, or even imply, that Christ spoke 'through Noah'. Jesus did not 'possess' anyone. Again notice what the verse actually says... ...In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit, IN WHICH (what which? made alive spirit) Jesus (Jesus' made alive spirit)went and preached to the spirits (souls) in prison (the abyss). The only reference to Noah was in description of the spirits. That's what I see God bless |
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88 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93717 | ||
1 Corinthians 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss. 21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. 22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 2 Thessalonians 3:The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. Philemon 1:19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides. It seems Paul did not write all of the epistles or letters himself, possibly dictating to someone but he signed them all to confirm they were his. Also occassionally he would write himself for emphasis. So we know he could write when he chose. And scripture gives no explanation of why he chose NOT to write but when he did he explains why, for emphasis. People make all kinds of assumptions of scripture. Check them out before you take them to heart Mark 4:23-25 23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. 24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. God bless |
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89 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93638 | ||
Hi DarcyA, For some reason I am not getting my E-Mail alerts to responses on my posts. Thank you for the response. I do not believe this statement had anything to do with sickness or disease. I simply believe he was pointing out that he was so concerned that he had handwritten the lengthy letter himself. God bless |
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90 | "Who ONCE were disobedient" is about? | Matthew | gracefull | 93633 | ||
As a grandmother 8 times over...You are SOO right on this one! It is an amazing difference from parenthood. We can be young again through these little guys!!!! God bless |
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91 | Any scriptural support? | Matthew | gracefull | 93630 | ||
Radioman2, No, this conclusion does not jive with the text... Look at this... 1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom(Holy Spirit) also HE WENT AND PREACHED to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed(PAST TENSE) long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 1. This text is addressing the death of Jesus as the righteous for the unrighteous. 2. These 'spirits' are in prison. "'Most likely this is a reference to the preincarnate Christ preaching through Noah to those who, because they rejected that message, are now spirits in prison" (Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978)." No, as one who takes the scriptures literally (except where schripture clearly directs me to do otherwise) I believe these scriptures mean exactly what they say. God bless |
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92 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93620 | ||
Hi figgy, Your post is correct. But the underlying message that WOF teaches Christians to manipulate the Word of God like a magicians wand is incorrect. Most of the responses to this teaching address it from the perspective that believers who subscribe to this teaching are all self seeking and expectant of God to give US what WE want in our selfish carnal nature desire. Let me point out that some in immaturity have attempted to USE faith as a means to achieving their own will. Immaturity and ignorance of scripture... WOF teaches ardently that faith worketh by love. Love described in 2 Corinthians 14 defines the God kind of love, and is not self seeking. God provides NOTHING for His children apart from His Word. And if His Word states it is ours under the New Covenant it is false humility and a slap in the face of God to reject what Jesus paid for. And also a hinderance to the work we are called to do if we 'humbly' do not believe for the provision to accomplish that work. It sounds arraogant to a poor understanding of true humility, but true humility wants all that Jesus bought and paid for in this life and the next. Why? Because when we walk in the fullness of all He has given we will walk in all the fullness of our calling, fulfilling our mission. Based on the assumption that someone believes the God is there to fulfill their desires, your post is correct. but based on the fact tha most desire to fulfill God's plan for their life and are believing for all the provision to accomplish that...your post is incorrect. You said.... Christ commands us in John 6:27 "do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life..." Jesus was saying do not expend your thoughts and energy striving for carnal possessions, that He would provide these for us. How does He provide them? Through faith...We receive nothing from God apart from faith. Faith WORKS but not the kind of labor Jesus was speaking of. Faith says, "Thank you Jesus. I will obey You expecting and believing and receiving by faith these provisions You have promised." Be careful to base your beliefs on scripture, not opinions of others or even actions of other Christians. They will ultimately always disappoint us. But God's Word will never FAIL! Read Deuteronomy 28. This is how God desires to treat His children. God bless |
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93 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93612 | ||
Hi DarcyA, Your post is not to me, but I would like to direct you to a couple of threads on the topic of Paul's 'thorn'. Please read thes because the assumption that physical sickness could be 'added' to Paul's list of suffereings is not scripturally accurate. #45428 #80556 I won't go into it here on this thread thoug. It is off the topic. God bless |
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94 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | gracefull | 93602 | ||
Hello Rhandz, I noticed you did not respond to the challenges you received. Just thought I would offer some encouragement. Hell Strong's #86 1.name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower 2.Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead 3.later use of this word: the grave, death, hell Acts 2:24-27 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. He came from the grave leading captivity captive! Psalm 68:18 Ephesians 4:8 God bless |
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95 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | gracefull | 93597 | ||
Hi Truthfinder, Although you gave an excellent discourse, the fact remains that scripture STATES that Jesus DID do something those 3 days. So your conclusion is not accurate. 1 Peter 3:18-20 God bless |
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96 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93594 | ||
LDS, Thank you for the encouragement. I can take no credit for that post. That one was straight from the Holy Spirit. God bless |
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97 | I unerstand, but that's not my question | Matthew | gracefull | 93592 | ||
"No doubt about it, gracefull, the two resurrections, Christ's and the believers', stand or fall together. If there is no resurrection, then Christ is dead, our faith and our preaching are empty, and we are false witnesses of God. That's not my opinion, it's what Scripture clearly said in the passage you cited, viz., 1 Corinthians 15:16-18. But we have every reason to believe and not a single one to doubt that Christ rose the third day according to the Scriptures and that the Risen Lord showed Himself to many infallible witness. The shouts of the first-century believers resound in our ears still and we can join in their chorus with the same assurance the eyewitness had, "He is risen! He is risen indeed." Praise His Holy Name! --Hank" Amen! Amen! Amen! God bless |
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98 | Jesus the Christ glorified! | Matt 10:28 | gracefull | 93590 | ||
Did Jesus die spiritually A forum member whom I will not name said.. "To answer that question in the affirmative is to deny the deity of Christ..." Thank you for the response. I know how touchy this topic is (I have been reading of all the controversy surounding the trinity discussion in the early church). My question/observation is.. Does Jesus dying spiritually deny His diety, or does it, rather, truly define the awesomeness of the sacrifice and the awesome power to overcome power to defeat death Hell AND the grave. This is a serious theological question, I know...But again I must ask the question, What IS spiritual death? If Jesus Christ did not die our spiritual death, then in all reality the debt would not have been paid. Why can't we simply accept scripture which says He went to Hell WHICH IS SPIRITUAL DEATH! To say He went to Hell but did not die spiritually die creates a NEW delima...We have to redefine spiritual death...Or do and centuries of theologians have done, simply say that physical death of Jesus was sufficient to redeem condemned mankind and then ignore the fact that He went into Hell for three days. Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Romans 1:3-4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 1 Corinthians 15:41-47 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. Our Lord apparently took our sins, paid our price and BECAUSE He is diety...the grave could not hold HIM...Glory to God! He broke the power of death Hell and the grave forever! God bless |
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99 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 93588 | ||
Thank you, |
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100 | How do we discipline church members? | 1 Cor 5:12 | gracefull | 93497 | ||
Hello 1ewoldstock You said... "Couldn't holding Christians accountable for their actions and disciplining for these actions create gossip and backbiting amoungst the congregation? It was not the case in this situation, but suppose that the Deacon was a spouse abuser or worse and the man she moved in with was a relative or an old family friend. Well-meaning members could bring an indescretion to the attention of the pastor every day." Matthew 18:15-17 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Your examples create different scenarios with different disciplines. First, if the husband was an abuser, to seperate for counseling is not a sin. To enter an adulterous relationship is. The fact that she refused to leave the relationship but rather to flaunt her defiance before the entire congregation sends the statement a child sends the parent when they fold their arms and say 'NO!' For a pastor to look the other way or preach to this sin at the expense of the others is not right. He sent a clear message to the congregation that blatan defiant lack of regard for the authority of God or the church authority would not be tolerated. Some would have seen this as a stamp of approval for this behaviour had he NOT done this, his church would have become divided. The sin of adultery was not the main problem, but the rebellious defiance to neither repent nor leave the church until she decided to repent was the problem. Defiance of the leadership especially where active sin is concerned can destroy a church. God bless |
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