Results 61 - 80 of 359
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Results from: Notes Author: Pastor Glenn Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140918 | ||
"However you working strictly on the age at conception and death going forward from Adam place Jacob at about 50 years old at the time of Shem's death. That difference is approximately one generation. " My point is that biblically, the years between Adam's creation and Shem's death is solidly 2156 years. The actual BC year can vary based on external evidence, but as you can see, I do have a real problem seeing flexibility in the scriptures here. So I guess I am missing your point on purpose. :-) Sorry, Pastor Glenn |
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62 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140916 | ||
"The argument for the majority texts is, the number of them carry the weight and since their in agreement it is safe to assume they are the most accurate. The counter to this is while they may be most numerous they could have their origin in one corrupted text. In many ancient secular manuscripts this has been seen over and over, so one has to ask could this be the case here." "Two or three witnesses" is biblically the accepted way to go: Deuteronomy 19:15 [ The Law Concerning Witnesses] "One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established. "Since it has no real effect on the true message of scriptures one wonders if it isn’t just causing us to lose focus on the real issues of the Bible. " Amen |
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63 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140910 | ||
EdB, "Let me present this theory If Reese going back is fifty years later and your going forward is fifty years sooner. Perhaps the reconciliation is a missing GENERATION. Cainan if added would make Jacobs birth later thus reconciling Reese to your calculations that Jacob would have been fifty when Shem died." Since we must use the Hebrew scriptures as the final authority, then the secular sources are secondary and put into doubt when they do not agree. Gen 11 12And Arphaxad hath lived five and thirty years, and begetteth Salah. 13And Arphaxad liveth after his begetting Salah four hundred and three years, and begetteth sons and daughters. So there can be no doubt that Arphaxad was 35 years old when Salah was born. And Arphaxad lived 403 years after Salah was born. Every Hebrew copy of Gen 11:12-13 does not include Cainan. No one doubts that Moses wrote Genesis in Hebrew. While the question remains concerning why older versions of Luke 3:36 did not include the second Cainan, and later copies did; no dates (years) are available anywhere that can be used to account for when he was born or when he died. So even if we could determine that he did in fact exist, the frustrating thing is, we cannot use any known dates to change our count of years from Adam.[:-(] Pastor Glenn |
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64 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140909 | ||
Hello EdB, "The main thing that bothers me about the Cainan being added in Luke is that Luke himself apparently did in fact included it. Most give the reason for this as Luke copied the genealogy from an altered copy of the Septuagint. That is interesting but one would think that God being God and able to create the universe would have been able to insure his chosen writer, that was recording events for all of mankind, would have a faithful copy from which to take that Genealogy." The article at http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3748.asp was written by Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, B.Sc. (Hons.), Ph.D., F.M. ( He has written many apologetics books. I am impressed by his biography at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/bios/j_sarfati.asp) and goes to great lengths to show that the second Cainan was not in the oldest copy of the Septuagint or the oldest copy of Luke. As support to it not being in older copies of the Septuagint, they quote a study by Mr. Larry Pierce. Mr Pierce, in turn, studies secular ancient writings of Josephus (AD 37/38 – c.100) to show that the extra Cainan was not in Josephus’ copy of the Septuagint. Even though Josephus’ copy contained most of the same errors (100 years added to each person in the genealogy), the extra Cainan was still not there. "Another thing that bothers me very much about the inadvertent addition of Cainan into the Septuagint theory is the fact the Septuagint was in existence at the time of Jesus and in fact some scholars feel certain that Jesus quoted from it. In any case the importance of that work had to be known to Jesus at the time. If Cainan was in fact added into any copy as some claim the name was I would think Jesus would have said, "hey you guys messed up." I know many claim the addition of Cainan didn’t happen until later when Luke was writing his account. But that doesn’t hold up against the theory the name was added to BC manuscripts and Septuagint manuscripts to add length to the Jewish culture to match Egyptian culture." Mr. Pierce summarizes: "I think we have more than enough evidence that would stand up in any court of law to show that every single copy we have of the LXX text was corrupted some time after AD 220. The copies of the LXX available to both Josephus and Africanus did not include this spurious generation. It is also not in either the Samaritan Pentateuch or the Hebrew manuscripts… …All these predate the New Testament Greek text. …" EdB, when you say "…that doesn’t hold up against the theory the name was added to BC manuscripts and Septuagint manuscripts…", do you count the Samaritan Pentateuch or the Hebrew manuscripts? Happy New Year, Pastor Glenn |
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65 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140864 | ||
I understand your concern EdB. I just see a much more difficult problem in loosing the name Cainan from Gen 11. The way this is written, I think it is called a "double linked list" of names between verses. It would have to have been dropped from at least 2 verses (12 and 13) and the wording would need to change in those verses. Also, 2 other complete verses (13.1 and 13.2) would have been dropped. Gen 11 12And Arphaxad hath lived five and thirty years, and begetteth Salah. 13And Arphaxad liveth after his begetting Salah four hundred and three years, and begetteth sons and daughters. This is how it would have looked with Cainan inserted: 12And Arphaxad hath lived five and thirty years, and begetteth Cainan. (changed) 13And Arphaxad liveth after his begetting Cainan four hundred and three years, and begetteth sons and daughters. (changed) 13.1 And Cainan hath lived five and thirty years, and begetteth Salah. (dropped) 13.2 And Cainan liveth after his begetting Salah X years, and begetteth sons and daughters. (dropped) An inadvertent error in Luke 3:36 is one thing. But the changes to Gen 11 cannot be inadvertent. It would have to have been done on purpose. Do you see my point? "Let us not lose sight of a very important fact of this discussion that is the account of the Fall and the Garden of Eden was probably passed through Abraham’s generation but second or third hand knowledge of people that had talked to Adam. This is important since we see accurate secular history preserved from this time period thus giving us still another assurance of the accuracy of the Biblical account. " I agree. Pastor Glenn |
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66 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140850 | ||
Actually it was Tim Moran that gave the link to that website in another thread connected to Luke 3:36 (Thanks Tim). Pastor Glenn |
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67 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140846 | ||
Hello EdB, http://graceandknowledge.faithweb.com/cainan.html: "However, Cainan does appear in the Greek Septuagint translation of Genesis: "Sons of Sem: Elam, and Assur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Cainan . . . . And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala. And Sala begot Heber . . . . And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala; and Cainan lived after he had begotten Sala, three hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters, and died." (Gen. 10:22, 24; 11:12-13) Although many Greek Septuagint manuscripts of I Chronicles omit the second Cainan, many Septuagint copies show the following: "And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala, and Sala begot Heber . . . . Sem, Arphaxad, Cainan, Sala, . . . ." (I Chron. 1:18, 24) " This looks even stranger. Notice above, how the entire list of names are repeated. Am I looking at this the wrong way? Pastor Glenn |
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68 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140836 | ||
"I prefer to believe that we have at least one extant manuscript with the right original words. Is there any ancient manuscripts that leave out the name Canain? " Yes, this is what the article says: "... A clue to the solution is that the extra Cainan in Genesis 11 is found only in manuscripts of the LXX that were written long after Luke’s Gospel. The oldest LXX manuscripts do not have this extra Cainan." Have you read it closely? See it at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3748.asp Pastor Glenn |
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69 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140817 | ||
No, It appears more likely that we have cirtain translations of Luke that have the extra name "Canain" inadvertantly added: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3748.asp Pastor Glenn |
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70 | The Lord told me to tell you..." ? | 1 Thess 5:20 | Pastor Glenn | 140693 | ||
So Doc, you are saying if one item is missing (joy or peace for instance), then we do not really have the fruit of the spirit? Interesting way to look at it. Your brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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71 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140684 | ||
EdB, Now that you have mentioned Luke 3:36, I see that you have discussed this before. I will check out the website that Tim referenced at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3748.asp Thanks, Pastor Glenn |
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72 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140665 | ||
EdB, So, do these guys provide any references at all concerning the birth date of Abram and the date of death of Shem? Pastor Glenn |
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73 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140664 | ||
Hello EdB, Yes, I just performed a Google search and came up with this site (among others): http://www.practicalchristianliving.org/timeline.htm If we use Adam's creation and count forward, we see the timeline as shown on this website. This matches a table that I put together from scripture. If I made a mistake, then this website, along with New Creature, also made the same mistake. Our only source is Genesis chapters 5 and 11. Again, these are the only geneologies that include "ages" along Jacob's birthline, so it seems strange how anyone could come up with anything else from scripture. Your Brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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74 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140649 | ||
Hello New Creature, This shows that the accounts of the fall of man and the great flood were probably taught by first, second, and third hand knowledge. This means that information was not passed through many, many generations, as is generally thought. I find this amazing. However, I am looking forward to EdB's reply on descrepacies with outside sources. Your brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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75 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140647 | ||
Hello EdB, I also agree that we must be careful. But isn't the burden of proof really on the Reese Chronological Bible to show how they came up with dates that differ from scripture. After all, don't we take the bible as the final authority? What sources do the Reese Chronological Bible give? Your brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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76 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140645 | ||
Hello Greentwiga, "The geneology of David only lists three people for a fou hundred year period." This geneology that we see in Genesis 11 gives the ages of the fathers when they had a son, as well as, how long they lived afterwards. Geneologies in Chronicles don't do this. It is clear that this particular geneology is not compressed. "The geneology of Jesus drops out known names." I am aware of only two kings' names (I can't remember them off hand) that seem to be missing for some reason from one geneology. However, closer study using literal translations should help show why. I think we will find that certain very wicked kings were not real fathers to appearent sons and their real birth lines were cut off by God's judgement. If you remember a name in question, I think that it is worth investigating. This should not be considered "questioning the authority of scripture". It is simply part of bible "study". I am also aware of this scripture: Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. We are werely counting years, in an effort to see overlapping lifespans. This shows that the accounts of the fall of man and the great flood were probably taught by first, second, and third hand knowledge. This means that information was not passed through many, many generations, as is generally thought. This is very significant, not "vain" at all. Your Brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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77 | Did Shem exit the Ark at 98, outlv Abrm? | Gen 11:10 | Pastor Glenn | 140614 | ||
Hello New Creature, I thought that this subject would spur much more debate. But, I think that as some forum members read the scriptures they forgot their train of thought when they woke back up after: Gen 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: Gen 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. ........... lets see... 100 plus 500 equals 600. Gen 11:12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: Gen 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. ............35 plus 403 equals ...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Gen 11:14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber: Gen 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. ............. 30 plus ...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Gen 11:16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: ....... Well New Creature, exactly how old was Jacob when Shem died? I think 50. Pastor Glenn |
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78 | salvation for demons? | Lev 18:25 | Pastor Glenn | 140604 | ||
Hello Angel, "... since they would not repent and obey, there is no Salvation for them!" Also, Jesus died as a man, as He paid the penalty of the death centance. We humans have the "advantage" of being able to shed our flesh and blood: 1 Corinthians 15 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."[g] 55 "O Death, where is your sting?[h] O Hades, where is your victory?"[i] The angels are already immortal. They cannot be "born again" of the Spirit like we can. Remember that Jesus had to become completely human before dying for us: Heb 10 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. The angels cannot have their sins taken away from their spiritual bodies. They have nothing to shed. Their corruption is in their spiritual bodies. They cannot shed there corrupt nature. They cannot change back holy. How could the debt of death be paid by a "physical" death of Christ? Any comments? Pastor Glenn |
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79 | The Lord told me to tell you..." ? | 1 Thess 5:20 | Pastor Glenn | 140602 | ||
Hello Doc, "Cessationism ... ... In orthodox Protestanism it is simply about sola scriptura. This is the advantage that Zaspel mentions (i.e., The scriptures, "the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience"). Well, cessation is in house debatable. I see the scriptures focus on "fruit" (Gal 5:22-23) of the Spirit rather than "gifts" of the Spirit. After we rank all gifts, as well as, rank all fruit, we get prophecy as the greatest gift and love as the greatest fruit. Love then, ranks above prophecy (1 Cor 13:2,13). There is no debating this: Gal 5 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 1 Cor 13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 13And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. Some churches look for gifts to show spiritual growth. But, isn't the Church full of "fruit" much better than the church full of "gifts"? Any comments? Pastor Glenn |
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80 | Taking ones own life | 1 Cor 3:17 | Pastor Glenn | 140581 | ||
Wow t, I must remember this verse when someone questions the Lord's love, justice and righteousness on earth. Your brother in Christ, Pastor Glenn |
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