Results 381 - 400 of 499
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Scribe Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
381 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85701 | ||
Part 2 0f 2 Now to add to this, we see here that prophesying in the church was allowed and encouraged by Paul but told to do it in an orderly manner two or three at the most and let the other judge, or in other words he says, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet and so the other has the power to wait to give his prophecy and not interrupt another. We have heard different interpretations of what this prophesy means. Some say it is like the charismatic gift of prophesy spoken by the modern charismatic church, others say it is the same as preaching the word. Some say it is neither and is passed away. That is another path to explore, but for now consider that regardless of your view, it was certainly some form of speaking and and had to do with ministry. Now if Paul had taught that a woman was not allowed to partake of this then Paul would be contradicting the Holy Spirit, and we know that is not true. Let me give another verse to help make this clear. Acts 21:8-9 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. This reference in Acts is in no way a negative about the daughters but a glorification of God. This is a testimony of the Holy Spirit continuing to be poured out on all flesh as Peter preached in Acts 2. I have never heard a scholar yet (though there may some) that have ventured to suggest that these daughters prophesied with any different prophesy than that which is spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor 14 when he is giving instruction on how to prophesy in order in the church. So we have a meeting of saints, a local assembly here in Acts 21 and we have 4 daughters of Philip who prophesy with the same gift. Now these are women, and they are speaking in ministry of prophesy in the church. If you are going to say that was different because it was not preaching or teaching, then you have to at least change your view that prophesy is the same as teaching and preaching the word. If you’re willing to do that then you are going to have to deal with what this prophesy is that Paul said we should all earnestly desire. But again regardless of your view of prophesy, it was speaking and it was ministry and it was in the church. So Paul could not have meant that women cannot minister in the Church, but rather they should not be disruptive. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:29-30 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. All three exhortations to keep silent or not speak is not about a ban on ministry by gender but an instruction on how to minister in order. We can also read verses like these Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. That show that Priscilla was used to teach a man that was considered mighty in the scriptures. We have to also look at the whole spirit of New testament Theology. We know that Jesus freed us from the legal restrictions spelled out under the Levitical law of such things as the woman having to be secluded at certain times of the month and many other burdens too numerous to mention. We know that Jesus brought to us who are born again an understanding concerning a walk of Love that will fulfill all the Law. We know that it is not within the spirit of the Gospel of Christ to put women into a legal rule of bondage that has no meaning or purpose. This is why it is so obviously a misinterpretation. When men quote “women should keep silent in the church” and “I suffer not a woman to teach” and carry it out as some kind of New Testament Law after the order of the Levitical Laws, they are obviously taking the phrase out of context and also adding their own understanding such as “Teach the Word” which is not what it says. May God bless you as you study His Word. |
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382 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85752 | ||
'According to a recently published interview with free-lance writer Ken Walker, however, Meyer contradictorily denies ever believing or teaching that Christ was born again in hell.(9) Maybe she realized it was error and changed her mind? I don't know if she believes this way, but it is possible she might have been confused by other teachers using the word in a persuasive way (but mistaking the meaning of "Firstborn") and that she has changed her views. Let's not write off those that are convinced they see something in the scriptures and are willing to take a stand on it. I respect a person that is willing to stand on what they think is scripture to the point of being maligned as a heretic over those that take a stand for things that are not in scripture so they will not get kicked out of their denomination. |
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383 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85754 | ||
I did not actually address the concept of a woman being a pastor in my previous posts. I was focusing on a woman preaching or teaching in a church. Now we all know that teaching and preaching is done by more than just the pastor. However let's take a look at the concept of pastoring. I believe that it is God's plan for a man to pastor and a woman to pastor if she is the wife of the pastor. For instance if a woman is called and gifted to pastor she can do so under the authority of her husband as the senior pastor. This is very common among our churches. There are many great churches that owe their success to not just the ministry of the Male Pastor but to the Wife of the Pastor who does as much work in the area of counseling, teaching, and many other ministry gifts as her husband. And sometimes these wives of pastors teach better than their husbands. I know of a couple in my church, the husband and the wife both graduated from bible school. I have heard both teach. The wife is one of the best teachers I have ever heard, and very humble and submissive to the authority of her husband. As it relates to the image of Christ I think she is one of the better examples in our whole church. Let's look at this through the eyes of the Spirit of the Word and not the letter of the Law. Let's say you have a missionary woman that is in a country like Afghanistan and she is busy doing the Lord's work and many converts are coming to Christ. This scenario is very realistic and not a "what if" that does not occur, but one that is occurring now all over the world. This woman is ministering the Word to these new converts and for a while there is no man to be a pastor. You may call her a missionary, but in all truth she is acting as the pastor of the new congregation. If the Lord raises up a male pastor among them in time, then she will hand that over to him and continue with her calling. But to say she cannot lead that flock in the mean while is not for us to say. When we do that we are legalistic scribes and pharisees and are missing the point. If a woman in america just decides she will start a church and be the senior pastor, I do not think she is going to have many wise men among her congregation because they will not be comfortable with a woman pastor because of the scriptures that lead us to believe God's method is for men to be pastors. There are certain women in the church today that are trying very hard to bring to the church a new understanding of scriptures concerning women in ministry. These women believe that from the middle ages and even since the reformation that the scriptures concerning women have been misinterpreted. I personally do not think it is that complicated. In short I think God is not bound by legalistic rules concerning gender, but that God will use a woman any time He wants to and who are we to say He won't. But I believe that there is an order in the kingdom of God, that the man has been given authority to lead and serve the woman and that the woman should submit to the spiritual leadership of the man. If the woman ministers the word she should do so under the authority of the pastor. This does not mean a woman cannot preach in the pulpit. The Lord Jesus Christ brought us freedom from bondage, therefore whatever the concept of the women being under the authority of the man must mean it must be a concept of freedom. If you teach it in such a way that limits the womans ability to share the gospel with everyone she comes in contact with you are in error and missing the spirit of the teaching. God Bless You as You Study His Word. |
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384 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85838 | ||
Part 1 of 2 I have not read her books. Mainly because I find her teachings are basic daily walk of faith mostly directed toward the emotional issues women face. I have heard her many times on radio and TV and have never heard her say these things. So in all fairness the teaching she is known for is solid and biblical advice for godly living. To call her a "wandering star" and categorize her as a false prophet is a worse sin than what you might be accusing her of. We all have different views about what the descending into the lower parts of the earth means. In Jude the wandering stars and those that Peter and Jude both speak about are demonized false teachers that are hell bound. If you say that about Joyce you have gone too far in your judgments and I would remind you that this is the kind of judgment Jesus said to avoid. Do not take her views and say she is teaching salvation by anything other than Faith in Jesus Christ, because she isn't. If you differ in your views about what the lower parts of earth means, or what the prophesy of David and repeated by Peter.. "thou will not leave my soul in hell.." means.. then you have that right, but you should not call someone a false prophet that interprets it differently, these are areas that are not so clear as you imagine that they are to you. I cannot really tell you for sure what they mean or what "1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" means. I have a view, but it is not the only one. And I do not call those that disagree with me on that issue a false teacher. This kind of fundamentalism is far from the heart of Christ. If you listen to Joyce Meyers for a complete teaching, if you are born again yourself, you will bear witness with her spirit that she is your sister in the kingdom of God and regardless of your difference of interpretations on the mysterious issues, you will find she does not preach anything about the “descending” when sharing the gospel with the lost. Her invitations to the lost are simple and straight forward, repent, and believe on Christ and what He has done for you on the Cross. She does not go beyond that in her altar calls. As many times as I have heard her on TV or radio which has to number in the hundreds living in Dallas all my life, I can tell you that unless you had posted these partial quotes I would have never known she believed that. I want to make one final point. I am sure that if I searched the writings of any teacher alive today I would find something I think is a gross misinterpretation but I am not going to call them a false teacher unless they are saying that Jesus is not God in the Flesh, or saying that you can be saved some other way besides faith in Jesus Christ alone. Let us remember in our "false righteous indignation" (yes there is such a thing) that with what measure we judge others (especially in the church) with that same measure shall we be judged. If we declare a person a false teacher for a controversial area of interpretation, then we will be declared a false teacher when we say something about a scripture that is not 100 percent accurate. Remember we see through a glass darkly, all of us even those that write books to "expose" the teachers they do not agree with. May we be careful to judge nothing (from our own faulty opinions) before the time. 1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. The passage about wandering stars and false teachers… Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Is declaring eternal damnation for those that are such. If you read all of this passage and compare it with Peters reference of the same group you find there are certain patterns or similarities. (continued on next post) |
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385 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85839 | ||
Part 2 of 2 These false teachers are motivated by the same demons that motivated false teachers in the OT, such as Balaam, and Cain. Jude says that there were false teachers that contented with Enoch about the coming of the Lord, saying it would not happen. He also says that these false teachers still teach the same thing that Balaam taught in his counsel. What was that? Balaam told the Moabite king that the way to defeat the Israelites was to get them to compromise by marrying Moabite women. The Error of Cain was more than just killing his brother, but was the counsel behind getting the sons of God (Adam¡¦s Camp) to marry the daughters of men (Cain¡¦s Camp) thus corrupting in a short time the whole world living only Noah and his family left righteous. So the false teachers in Judes day were the Gnostics teaching the same thing, the Nicolaitains who taught a doctrine similar to ¡§you can sin with the flesh and not with the spirit¡¨ thus turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. So the fitting example of a false teacher today that is motivated by the same powers of darkness at work since the days of Cain, are those that teach that we can sin and still go to heaven, or we can indulge in the flesh and just loose some rewards, or that we can commit fornication and our spirit be free. Yes there are false teachers like this and they start up churches every day. This is not anything like the ¡§word of Faith¡¨ camp that you mention. There are some such teachers that annoy me for their brash personalities, but they are not guilty of being a wandering star. Not until they say that Jesus is not Coming again, or that we have to do other things to be saved, like join their group do they cross the line into false teaching. It is not a false teaching because you do not agree with it. ƒº I have found that it does not take any prayer at all to notice what is wrong with others. What I mean is that there is no such spiritual gift as ¡§the gift of criticism¡¨ This comes naturally. We are all very good at it. I challenge you to pray for a person like Joyce Meyers for one week in your prayers, asking the Lord to take away all selfish criticism and give you only His heart on the matter. (That is if it is even something you need to deal with, if not one should keep their mouth closed about another, In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin). If after a week of praying for her on your prayer list, listen to her on the radio or TV through a whole message. Realize you do not have to agree with every tiny thing someone says for them to still be saved just like you. If you find that she is teaching salvation by any other means than Christ alone, or other gross false doctrine, then call her a false prophet and be done with it. I might get annoyed at some of the personalities, circus acts, and even misinterpretations of scriptures I hear from Faith teachers, but I also get restless when I hear the misinterpretation of scriptures from those that despise the Faith teachers. I do not believe that God wants us to claim financial wealth but I do not call those that teach that false teachers. The Lord Knows the Hearts. God knows whether the man really believes that is what the scripture says or whether he is a wolf in sheep¡¦s clothing. We can know if he is a wolf by his fruits. If you know that a preacher lives a holy life and is full of good works, and he teaches such things, he may just really believe that is what the scripture teaches, in which he would be wrong not to proclaim it. If Joyce really thinks Jesus had to suffer in hell, as strange as that sounds to you, that does not make her a false teacher. It may be a misunderstanding she has. But please be careful. I think a greater sin is being committed by the church today than that of ¡§Hyper-Faith¡¨ and that is ¡§Hyper-Criticism¡¨ The Hyper-Faith teacher if sincere will have their teachings (works I cor 3) tried at the Bema seat of Christ, if it is not eternal it will be burned up and they will suffer the loss of rewards (this is not about sin but teachings of teachers such as Paul, Apollos, Peter in that passage) The ¡§Hyper-Critical¡¨ person is in danger of hell fire, as Jesus said on numerous occasions. May we humble ourselves and extend grace to those that we do not agree with while maintaining a holy standard of purity and righteousness. Let us continue to lift up Jesus and leave the controversial subjects to the Lord to judge. |
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386 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85842 | ||
I will mention that there is no such scripture that says a woman should not be a pastor. We infer it from the scriptures instructing the elder, bishop, as addressed to men to therefore exclude women as a consideration in the mind of Paul. So we can say that it is "inferred" in scripture that a pastor be a man. It is not really fair to say the scripture CLEARLY says a woman should not pastor. I believe the inferrance is enough, but I do not say that it is conclusive. I am open to more light (but only from the scriptures) I would not attend a church in America where the woman was the pastor and that by choice. I would not have a problem with a temporary situation where say the pastor of an independant church went home to be with the Lord and the wife how had been involved in ministry with her husband served as pastor until another male pastor was chosen. I would have a problem with a church that chose to keep a female pastor indefinitely. I am not 100 percent sure I am right about being that way. I am open to the Lord to show me if I am proud or if this is something that is not from Him. I want to follow the Lord and not men, I want to adhere to the correct interpretation of scripture and not misinterpretations based on personal prejudice. When it comes to seeking the Lord in holiness and wanting myself and my church to be under a godly leadership who seeks only the fulness of Jesus Christ, I would rather have a holy woman pastoring than and compromising flesh ensnared man. What I am saying is that the Word of God does give us clear direction, and it is a direction that is full of the Spirit, not legal rules that do not point to Christ. If you were in a situation where you had to choose between a man that you knew (but it had not been made public) had a porn addiction, and a woman that lived holy and pure before the Lord and of course had the gifts of pastoring, then God would expect you to choose the way of holiness and not compromise. Let us think in light of all the scriptures and not one we think says a woman should not pastor, when it really says no such thing. But again.. I believe a woman should not pastor IF there is a man who is able. But don't let that "order" of things cause you to miss the will of the Lord in certain circumstances and judge a woman's ministry as not "of God" and find yourself in opposition to the Lord, because of dogmatic stances where the scripture is not dogmatic. There is nothing more important than determining what is God's will by the scriptures. But let us not go beyond what the scripture says when we claim the scripture as our authority. I am not trying to bring controversy but balance. Interesting thing is that the of all the most holy women I have ever known in the church, who were gifted to teach and preach (and some better than many pastors) none of them wanted to pastor. :) |
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387 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85867 | ||
Interesting, I am in agreement with the statement that I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I was a sinner, but now I am saved. Paul knew he was forgiven and made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. This message is not obsolete but a very present truth. If this is the best this writer can do to try and paint Joyce as a false prophet he is not doing a good job. As a matter of fact I am finding more fault with the few statements of the writer than with Joyce. "'Like others in the Word-Faith camp who are uneducated, untrained and unskilled in doctrine and systematic theology" What constitutes "educated, trained and skilled in doctrine and systematic theology?" Fishermen? or those that attend the Univiersities of the writers liking? If the authors of the doctrine were untrained, unskilled, and uneducated, then we have no right to demand such from the readers or preachers. The bereans searched the scriptures to see if these things were so. I recommend the writer of the article do the same. 1 Corinthians 6:10-11 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. All Joyce is saying, is that we are all sinners in the sense that we have all sinned, but if you are born again and a partaker of the divine nature you have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lusts, God does not look at you as a sinner but as Cleansed by the Blood of Christ and God calls you the righteousness of God in Christ. If God says that about me, who am I to argue against God and call myself a miserable sinner. Yes I was, and at times I feel like I still am, but I am not, I am a new man in Christ, born again and forgiven, my sins are removed as far as the east is from the west and Most born again saints do believe this. So if the writer thinks that those that dare call themselves the righteousness of God in Christ are false teachers, then he has condemned the whole church as I know it. This type of rhetoric, comparing Joyce with the false prophets of Zech 13 is as extreme as any extremism he accuses Joyce of. And so he will be judged with the same judgement he dishes out. His lack of grace toward a fellow saint only prooves his sainthood is questionable. His interpretation of what Joyce meant is in error. I have heard her preach many times that her teaching or any other teaching of man is not divinely inspired as the Word is. This writer is simply leaping on a poor choice of words to try and say Joyce is meaning something beyond what she said. This writer is Lutheran? My wife grew up in a Lutheran church, not trying to say they are all alike but the one where she grew up, she never knew anyone that was saved. When she was born again she had to leave the Lutheran Church. In the church she attended the Sunday School teacher taught teen girls it was ok to get abortions. I can get an idea why this pastor might be so surprised by this teaching. The church my wife went to knew nothing about being born again. They were sinners alright. Just as much as anyone else. They liked keeping their faith private and they did a good job, as far as she could tell they did not have any. I have hung around with Lutherans,and I have hung around with saints that attend Joyce Meyer's meetings. Give me the Joyce fans anyday, they are definitly saved and on the way to heaven. I could not see any fruit of that in the Lutheran Church. Don't be offended by my statements, they are simply the observation of one Lutheran Church (or a few others I have come in contact with in my life) I am sure there are some out there that are different. And my point is simply that I can find much more doctrinal error in the Lutheran Churches I came in contact with than in Meyer's. How about the Lutheran Pastor that tells a grieving couple he will not bury their baby because the baby was not baptized? Let us use righteous judgement and walk in Love. Someone asked about modern Pharisees or Scribes who are guilty of the error Jesus warned us against, I think it is these type of debate mongers, and cult watchers that fit the description. They strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. |
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388 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85894 | ||
Gee I think Joyce and her Husbands response seems more Christ like. | ||||||
389 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85896 | ||
I think that is pretty goofy preaching, but it is still not damnable heresy. It is not saying that we must be saved by works, or saying that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was not sufficient, he is just adding more details about what he thinks the descending into hell meant. I don't agree with the teaching, but it is hard to call it a doctrine of demons. I think saying that someone has to be trained in systematic theology and apologetics to be a good preacher is more in the area of doctrines of demons. That sort of teaching suggests that Timothy who was mentored by paul not nor formally trained in the type of modern seminary the writer is suggesting was not a good preacher. I think that is more a violation of the scriptures than what he is accuseing Kenneth Copeland of. Why.. Because we do not really know what happened when Jesus descended into hell. We know he went because David prophesied it and Peter repeated it in Acts 2. We don't know what happened, so I can't really 100 percent say. But I can say that to suggest that a preacher called of God has to be formally trained in theology and apologetics and the art of hermenuetics is not going to be able to teach sound doctrine is a direct contradiction to several known scriptures that say otherwise. Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: |
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390 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85906 | ||
I am simply saying that I have been around those that enjoy the teaching of Joyce Meyers, I know many of them, I have seen their daily lives, all of the ones I know of live holy lives and are full of the fruits of being saved, Love, joy, peace, holiness, purity etc. I have also been around many Lutherans as this writer that declares Joyce to be a false teacher teaching doctrines of demons.. Of all the Lutherans that I have been around, none of them were born again, none of them ever read the bible or had a clue what real doctrine was, whether it related to the descension of Christ into the lower parts of the earth or any other doctrine. ( I am sure there are Lutherans that do know doctrine but the ones I know do not) So it is not fair for me to paint with a broad brush all Lutherans just becuase all the one I know are dead in their sins going through the motions of church attendance but little else, neither is it fair to call Joyce a false teacher because she taught that certain things probably occurred during that time that she has now recanted. I look more at the fruit of peoples lives to tell if their doctrine is correct. May God bless you as you study His word. | ||||||
391 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85907 | ||
I dont agree with many things Faith Teachers have taught, but his view on what faith is does not make him a false prophet. You are going to have to go back to the scriptures and read about false teachers and false prophets, then compare this teaching about Copelands view on faith and you will see it is not one of the scriptural examples of what makes a false prophet. (and I don't listen to Copeland or Joyce) I listen to Joyse when she is on my radio going to work because I only listen to christian radio and no other station. But I don't seek her out. I find their teachings quite boring for me. I am sure that others get something out of it, but to me they are very basic. |
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392 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85958 | ||
Part 1 of 2 I did a study on false teachers in the New Testament and I noticed that of the many verses on it most of them have a clear reference to teaching immorality, or that one can indulge in the flesh and still go to heaven. My wife grew up in the Lutheran church. My wife is well versed in scripture today. When she was born again, she could not find anyone in her church that had a clue what she was talking about. That speaks volumes about the “doctrine” going forth from that pulpit at least. But I have found her experience not uncommon to Lutheran churches in my area. She will also testify that the teaching there did suggest that the members who were committing adultery and other obvious sins would still go to heaven because they were baptized in the Lutheran church and a few other things they had “checked off” of what was required. But for the most part even if you asked those that kept the Lutheran rules and quoted the right sayings, if you asked them if they died right now if they would go to heaven, they could not answer in the affirmative with confidence but gave the same answers you get from anyone on the street, “I hope so” or “no one can be sure can they” This condition of the typical Lutheran Congregation speaks volumes about the doctrine of their pulpits. Now if this pastor can say that Joyce is a wandering star, quoting Jude of which wandering stars mentioned there are reserved for everlasting damnation, and if the reason he is so sure of her being a false teacher has to do with doctrine then let us look at what the scripture says about false teachers. If we are going to be like the Bereans and search the scriptures whether these things be so, let us search the scriptures on false teachers, not one of them mentions that if a teacher thinks that Jesus had to suffer in hell he is a false teacher. I don’t agree with that idea, I do not know what happened when Jesus desceneded and I think if the bible is silent about it we should be also, but nevertheless that is not the example the new testament gives as to what is a false teacher. And furthermore the New Testament does not leave it up to us to guess what is a false teacher. By the sound of most that accuse others of being false teachers in the Christian church they sound like they are saying if you do not agree with me on a doctrine you are a teacher of false doctrine. But thanks be to God he gives us plenty of detailed examples of what is a false teaching, I am going to post only a few to give an idea…. Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! And the wandering stars Jude spoke of? What did they teach? Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. There are many many more, do a search and you will see there is a pattern. The false teacher that we have a biblical right to call a false teacher is not one that disagrees with our denomination on baptism or what happened to Jesus when he descended, but who teaches you can indulge in the flesh and still go to heaven. (continued on next post) |
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393 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85959 | ||
Part 2 of 2 Now taking the Bible on the subject the Lutheran Pastors I have contact with, are false teachers, because the give their congregation who are immoral and not born again the false sense of security that they are saved. Joyce on the other hand teaches a strong message of holiness and accountability. As stated I have never heard her teach on the descension but hear her call people to a deeper walk with God in every message. So who is the false teacher according to the Bible, the Lutheran pastor that teaches that the member of his congregation that commits adultery will still go to heaven at their funeral, (yes I have heard this) or Joyce who would say if they did not repent in sincerity in truth they went to hell. I think Joyce is in line with scripture on salvation and the doctrine of salvation by faith over every Lutheran I have met so far. Why am I picking on Lutherans, I am not, I am addressing the doctrine of the pastor that is claiming he is an authority on doctrine and Joyce is not and that he wants to paint her as a false prophet. Biblically she does not qualify but the Lutherans I know of do. Let’s stick to what the scripture says about a wandering star and a false teacher and then see who fits the pattern. If you are honest you have to agree that the pattern is that the bible teaches that the false teacher teaches that you can commit fornication, or that the grace of God allows you to commit lasciviousness., etc. So we say we want to be biblical but few us really do it. Instead we run around calling someone a false prophet because we don’t agree with them. Just say you think she is wrong, instead of calling it false doctrine. Or be biblical and Berean like you claim and use scripture that says a false teacher teaches that doctrine that you are saying she is teaching. You do not have the right to call someone a false teacher unless the bible says that they who teach that are false teachers. I have heard Lutherans say someone who died an unrepentant adulterer is in heaven So I can say according to the scriptures that that Lutheran pastor was a false prophet.. or teachers. Because he taught that the person could have his lasciviousness excused because of the Grace of God, though it was a false teaching and not the true Grace of God which teaches… Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; I would end my posts concerning this thread with the reminder that I am sure there are saved born again Lutherans as there are in other denominations world wide and God knows whose are his and let every man that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. This post is not about Lutheran bashing but how that if this Lutheran pastor thinks he has biblical authority to call Joyce a false prophet I have more biblical authority to accuse the Lutheran doctrine of such and mine is more inline with what the scripture describes as a false teacher. |
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394 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85961 | ||
Maybe I should debate this man on the air? | ||||||
395 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85966 | ||
Ok I am bored now, in my opinion Joyce won the debate. :) | ||||||
396 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85975 | ||
I am saying... That if we post all the scriptures on what Paul, Peter, Jude, John described as what a false teacher we should avoid teaches, we see that the number one pattern is that a christian could sin or indulge in the flesh and be blameless. You can apply that to anyone you want and see if that sounds like what they are teaching, then be a berean or be biblical, and from such turn away. |
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397 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85978 | ||
Part 1 of 2 Posted below you will find some error from the Lutherans. It is as much error as the posts that have been given from Joyce or Kenneth Copeland. But I do not call the Lutheran Pastor who teaches this error a false teacher or a false prophet unless... He teaches that the baby goes to hell without this baptism. Then I would say it is false doctrine because then he preaches salvation through something other than faith in Christ alone, which is one of the other marks of a false teacher, one that denies Christ. If the redemption of Christ is extended toward this baby who cannot reason by virtue of baptism in the Luthern Church, then this redemption of Christ is extended to this baby who cannot reason without the baptism in water also or otherwise it is not the redemption of the supstitutionary sacrifice of Christ of which they are having faith in, because that reality stands whether the baby is baptized or not, so it either extends to babies or it does not. If on the other hand the Lutheran pastor believes this is biblical, but does not go so far as to say he thinks the baby goes to hell without it then I do not label him as a false prophet, only wrong, as he should label Joyce and Kenneth as wrong and not false prophets or teachers. WHY DO LUTHERANS BAPTIZE INFANTS? To begin with it should be noted that infant baptism has been practiced in the Christian Church as far back as we can trace. There appears to be no time in the history of the Church when infants were not baptized. In addition to this there is no trace in either the New Testament or the early Church of the Baptism of the children of Christian parents who had been brought up in the faith. It appears then that they were either baptized as babies or they were never baptized. What this means is that Lutherans really do not have to defend the Biblical, Holy, Christian and Apostolic practice of infant baptism, it stands on its own. The burden of proof lies with those who would abandon it. Presently we find a segment of Christianity which practices believers baptism. This group does not practice infant baptism but usually has some sort of consecration of the child to God. Lutherans baptize infants because: 1) It is biblical. While it is true that there is no command to baptize infants (babies) in the bible, it is also true that there is no command to baptize adults. The biblical command is to baptize people (all nations.) Our Lord Jesus clearly considered infants (babies) and children to be people. One of the few times that our Lord grew angry was when His disciples tried to keep the children away from Him. "When Jesus saw this, he was indignant (angry). He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." Mark 10:14 (NIV) Our Lord tells us to baptize all nations. Matthew 28:19 He never tells us to baptize just reasoning adults. All nations clearly included the children of those nations. "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" Matthew 28:19 (NIV) Those who have a problem with infant baptism usually assume that saving faith must involve reason. The line of thought seems to be that since a very young child cannot reason - a child cannot have such faith. Most who follow this line of reasoning believe that baptism is a work of man which demonstrates, or flows from, faith. This is a sharp contrast with the Biblical position that Baptism is a gracious gift of God that bestows saving faith. What we need to remember here is the fact that the Bible teaches that salvation comes through faith and that faith itself is God's gift. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV) "Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ." Romans 10:17 (NIV) God's Word cannot be bound. A child can be given a gift of a million dollars even though that child cannot appreciate it at the time. So a child can be given the gift of faith through the water and Word of Holy Baptism even if that child cannot appreciate it at the time. A related problem is that by involving man (reason) in the process of salvation one turns God's action into something in which sinful man has a part (making a decision for Christ). In so doing one destroys the heart of the gospel message. (The fact that God saves us by grace, through faith!) Think about it for a moment, if I am involved in my salvation, did I do it right? Was I sincere . . . Faith is turned from a gift of God into a work of man. And since we often make mistakes . . . Thus it is that the assurance of salvation is often lost. (continued on next post) |
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398 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85979 | ||
Part 2 of 2 In Colossians 2:11-12 St. Paul refers to Christian baptism as a circumcision. Since throughout the Old Testament God required circumcision of infants on the eight day after birth (Genesis 17:10-14 - except when one converted as a youth or adult) then clearly the baptism of infants shortly after birth is also a biblical practice. Babies are sinners held accountable before God for their sin. (Original sin) This is clearly seen in the fact that children die. The wages of sin is death. The theory that a child is not held accountable by God for his/her sins until they reach some 'age of accountability' cannot be supported from the pages of Holy Scripture. A related problem here is that this age of accountability cannot easily be determined. This also has the effect of eroding ones confidence in God's gift of salvation. (Was I old enough to make the decision to be baptized . . .) Finally, in the New Testament we find examples of entire households being baptized. (1 Corinthians 1:16; Acts 11:14, 16:15,33; 18:8) Since almost every household in that day included children, some infants were almost certainly baptized. 2) It has been the practice of the Church from the time of the Holy Apostles on. This can be established in three ways: First, some of the early Christian writers were not in favour of it. This shows that it was certainly practiced! Secondly, we are told by the early Church Father Origen (240 A.D.) that infant baptism was the normal practice. He writes: "The church received a tradition from the apostles to give baptism to infants too." Thirdly, as already mentioned we find no trace of the children of practicing Christians being baptized as older children or adults. Clearly, infant baptism has been, and still is for the vast majority of Christians the normal means of entrance into God's family, the Holy Christian Church. 3) We also baptize infants because, quite simply, it works! Millions upon millions of fine upstanding Christians have become part of God's family through Holy Baptism. Baptism of infants is a great witness to the fact that is God and God alone who saves us. That tiny child can do nothing for himself/herself. God, and God alone gives that child the gift of salvation. To learn more about Holy Baptism please turn to Luther's Large and Small Catechism. Mark R. Danielson Now I have not taken the time to explain why this explanation does follow scripture because most readers are going to see through it without my help, my point is not to start a thread refuting infant Baptism but to demonstrate that the Lutheran Writer that calls Joyce a false teacher holds to doctrines that most protestant evangelicals today would vehemently disagree with. Should we call him a false prophet too? If Joyce taught that Jesus descended into hell but she does not say you have to believe that to be saved, that is a slander of her to say she says that, yet the Lutheran says the baby goes to hell without this baptism.. which one would you say is closer to false doctrine? You judge. |
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399 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 85981 | ||
Oops correction to this post above.. Now I have not taken the time to explain why this explanation does NOT follow scripture | ||||||
400 | can a women preach and teach men | 1 Tim 2:12 | Scribe | 86013 | ||
If that is the case then that would indeed be a false doctrine that is opposite the true grace of God. Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; |
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