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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Order of occurance | Bible general Archive 2 | New Creature | 127918 | ||
Greetings once again tgc: I found your reply most interesting. Below I have numbered and listed comments you made, and have provided my comments on them in return. The first comment of yours that stood out was: 1)"Regeneration : When Christ renews ones heart and gives that person the new nature or if you will the point a which the new man is born. This is entirely the work of Christ and man has no hand in it." With that I agree. Next you stated: 2)"The Bible teaches that salvation comes by grace through faith." Yes that is clearly stated in Eph. 2:8-9. But is there any place in the Bible that says, "regeneration" comes through faith. If what you previously said was true, and which I believe it is that; "regeneration, is entirely the work of Christ and man has no hand in it." Then is it possible to exercise faith to bring about "regeneration" The word faith and believe are interchangeable in Scripture, and since we are commanded to believe (1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ) or have faith in Christ, then I only see where faith is necessary for salvation, but not necessary for "regeneration." And since we both agree man has no hand in regeneration, then at the same time we cannot be commanded to be "regenerated" If being regenerated was to be commanded, then we would have to obey and that would mean that in obeying we actually did have a hand in it, since obedeince to any command is active rather than passive. And we would be found contradicting ourselves in what we previously stated. Next you stated: 3) "Yes I belive an unregenerated man can respond to the Gospel." In my understanding of the unregenerate, they are spiritually dead, (Eph. 2:1-10)and unable to respond to any call. Even Lazarus had to first be awakened from his dead condition before he could obey the call of Jesus to "come forth" (John 11:43) I don't see where the dead can even hear let alone respond to anything. Next you stated: 4) "The Bible goes on to tell that faith comes by hearing the Word of God." I agree. But is there any place in the Bible where it says "regeneration" comes from hearing? I think we need to see the difference between "faith" and "regeneration" The last statement of yours that stood out was: 5) "all who come to Christ have an unregenerated heart." Once again can those who are spiritually dead until being regenerated, be able to come to Christ? In my previous example of Lazarus, we have seen that before Lazarus could come to Jesus, he had to first be brought to life. I think this is the same thing we see concerning being made alive physically can also be said about being made alive spiritually. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you and thanks for the great reply New Creature |
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2 | Order of occurance | Bible general Archive 2 | tgc | 127937 | ||
New Creature, I think our wise brother Tim Moran has spoken well in that we can discuss this but with the understanding over all scripture is silent on the actual order of these events. Now on to answer your questions. The question you listed as 2. In my opion regeneration comes after salvation and therefore there is no contradiction at all. 3. Leaarus had to have heard the command from his Lord to rise from the dead. Then he obeyed the command come forth. So in this case I would say that the dead did hear the command of his Lord. 4. I did not relize that I had mixed faith and regeneration. What I said is that salvation comes through grace by faith. My understanding would be grace and faith are the agents of salvation. That is to say regeneration takes place after salvation. 5. Lazarus heard the call to come forth from the dead and responed to that call. Although his response was through the power of his Lord Jesus Christ. In The Love Of Christ, tgc |
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3 | Order of occurance | Bible general Archive 2 | New Creature | 127964 | ||
Hello again tgc; Let me see if I understand you correctly. To sum up what your saying in a sentence, would the following statement be a correct reflection of your view? salvation precedes the new birth God bless you New creature |
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4 | Order of occurance | Bible general Archive 2 | tgc | 127966 | ||
New Creature, Exactly. In The Love Of Christ, tgc |
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5 | Order of occurance | Bible general Archive 2 | New Creature | 127970 | ||
tgc; Thank you for helping me understand you position. Hopefully we can discuss this some more, if any further thoughts on this topic arise among us. It was nice to become aquainted with you. I look to seeing and hearing more from you in the future. God Bless you New Creature |
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