Results 1 - 2 of 2
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | Talmid of Yeshua Ha Maschiach | 193503 | ||
Anne, my sister, I feel that you have misunderstood me. I do not propose that the Torah is a means unto salvation, for none can be saved by it. Indeed, it points us to our natural sinful state. That said, you can still follow Torah and be under the Law of the Spirit of Life, for it is by faith that we are saved and not Torah. Y'shua, Himself, stated that if we love Him we will obey his mitzvot (John 14:15,21,24). Now, Y'shua is the WORD, right? What does the WORD contain? Look to the first five books of the Bible. The Torah. Now if the Torah is abolished, then part of the WORD is abolished. Please think about this. Secondly, I do not say that I follow Judaism. I feel more of an affinity for it than historic Christianity, but I am in line with Christianity because I accept Y'shua as the Messiah. The actual split between Judaism and Historic Christianity came about 90A.D. when the Romans were persecuting the Jews and Gentile Christians used it as an excuse to separate from the "silly nonsense" of the Jewish ways. Not before. There was always a persecution of the Christians by the Jews, but that was not the cause of the split. Even at the time of the split, there were those that were caught in the middle because they wanted to keep on doing what Y'shua commanded them. These people were known as "The Way", for Y'shua is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. One of the early church fathers, St.Augustine, was a critical mover and shaker. He was a neo-platonist and had been involved in the Manichaean heresy. Also, there was Constantine, who, having no knowledge of Scriptures at all, decided upon a great deal of the Church doctrine. He did this to make Christianity more acceptable to the pagan public. At the later times the followers of "The Way" were a very small minority due to persecution by the Christians, Jews, and Moslems. It was during the Reformation that these people started booming again as people came to see the Scriptures for themselves and not be told "Church Tradition". One of the best people to cite, that was born just after this time, would be Rabbi Isaac Lichtenstein, who although a Jew, could see the difference between Historical Christianity and the road that the Apostles took. Thirdly, Sha'ul did not just pick and choose rituals. They were inigrained in him, as he was taught by the great Rabban Gamaliel himself. All the way through Acts and in fact, all his other epistles, show that he was observant of the Torah that was given to all people. And again, he did not do this unto salvation, but because of his love for Y'shua. A point should be made here that he did not follow rituals, but mitzvot (commandments). He several times states that he follows the Torah in Romans and when he does speak against it, he usually means the legalistic observances and oral law. Fourthly, there was a sect that numbered a fair few that were known as the Judaizers. Do you know what it is to Judaize? To insist upon circumcision as the means unto salvation, not as is commonly taught, the following of the Torah. There was also the Legalistic sect that insisted that the following of the Torah was the means unto salvation, something that I do not condone. Most Jews knew already that they were saved by faith and not through works. It was really only these sects that had the problem with Gentiles. For the Fifth point, AMEN! Through repentance and faith that leads to obedience! The Sixth point is that yes, He did come to complete the Torah and Prophets, not to abolish them. Indeed, Matthew 5:17-20 is one of my favourite verses. Since Heaven and Earth have not yet passed away and everything that must happen, has not yet happened, Torah still stands. As to Ephesians 2, it most certainly does not contradict anything that I have said. Indeed we are grafted into the commonwealth of Isra'el and again, this only comes through the shedding of the Mashiach's blood. Seventh point, Our righteousness is greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P'ruchim. Why? Because Y'shua has made us clean and righteous, we who were unworthy of such a free gift of love so divine. It is not by following the Torah unto salvation and the giving a yoke of oral laws that will weigh us down. Lastly, "But seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well". Yes, but what has He been talking about in this paragraph (v.31-34). We must understand that we are not to think in dualism; earthly, heavenly; carnal, spiritual; etc. In the end we must find His righteousness, which leads to loving Him, which leads to obeying His Mitzvot, which leads to the Torah. I know that this is kind of long-winded, but I wanted to straighten a couple of things out. In the end, I do not say that you must follow the Torah, I can only tell you what I must do personally. I love Him, and so, I will do His bidding. Yours in Y'shua HaMashiach, Talmid |
||||||
2 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | canawedding | 193580 | ||
Hello Talmid, Thank you for your reply. You wrote: "it is by faith that we are saved" and that is true but that statement can mean many different things to many different people and it does but there is only "one Faith" that will save us, Eph 4:4-7. In Mt 6:33, Jesus Christ told us to seek first God's Kingdom and God's Righteousness. In Ro 1:16-21, we read what Paul wrote about that same saving Faith and that same saving Righteousness. What we must find also has everything to do with the narrow Gate and the narrow Road, Mt 7. What, exactly, must we find according to Mt 6:33? I think you have misunderstood me. Please, read my previous comments again. I can't list them here due to a space requirement by the site. The "split" you mentioned took place in Ac 11 where the believing Jews learned that Gentiles are saved just like them -- through repentance and faith. Are you a child of Abraham? All true Christians must be the Children of Abraham. Did Abraham have the Torah or any other Scriptures? When was Abraham credited with Righteousness from God and why? The Scriptures remain the "letter that kills" for everyone who does not have the exact "one Faith", 2Co 3-4. Do you think those who did not have access to the Scriptures or those who never heard a true Christian preach had no opportunity to be saved? Well, they all have and only the exact original Gospel Truth can explain it. However, more will be required from those of us with the Scriptures and Jesus Christ's request in Mt 6:33 is very specific. What, exactly, must we find first of all? Those who have found, will certainly know exactly what they found and how. As far as the Reformation and whom to "cite", i would highly recommend that you read Robert Barclay's "Apology for the True Christian Divinity" written over 300 years ago. Let me ask you this: How is it possible that i learned what is written in that book 3 and 1/2 years before i knew about it or about the people who believed in its teaching? Except for an occasional very minor non-salvation issue, i had also believed what was written by those true Christians, 3 and 1/2 years before i knew what they had believed in and what they had written. Over 150 years after it was written, Barclay's book alone remained on a controversial shelf at Oxford where all other writings had been successfully disputed and removed. Only Barclay's Apology remained 150 years later and that is no surprise since what is written in it totally agrees with the Teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ and all of His true servants. As far as Paul and the Law: Paul knew that the New Covenant must be spiritual. God is Spirit and He must be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth, Jn 4:1-26. All true Christians will have God's Law of Faith written on their heart and in their minds, Heb 8-10. Do you understand what Paul meant when he wrote about the letter that kills? Do you understand how true Christians must exceed the old Law and how that becomes possible? Of course, not all Jews had a problem with Gentiles not being circumcised but there were other issues, like eating together and the kinds of foods and the washing rituals. It took time for some to adjust and others never did but those problems and the people who caused them were symbolic of others who would come and cause similar problems. Although in Galatians, Paul primarily focused on the specific problem of physical circumcisions, what Paul wrote there also applies to all other physical rituals from the OT Law. You said, AMEN, to the repentance and faith that leads to obedience. What, exactly, must we believe as we read in Mk 1:14-15 and many other Scriptures? You also agreed with Mt 5:17-20 but you didn't answer my simple question about Eph 2. It does appear that Paul was contradicting what Jesus Christ said about not abolishing the Law but he didn't. What was Paul teaching us there? You are right that not one of us has deserved to be saved through Jesus Christ. We cannot be saved without receiving Righteousness from God, that is true but how, exactly, do we receive it? We must seek first and that command must be taken in a very large context of the Gospels, Mt 1-7, minimum, but all of Mt 1-13 and Lk 10-13 are even better. God's entire Holy Bible is about His Righteousness, His Righteous Requirements, His Gift of Righteousness and His Righteous Judgment. More will be required from those who have more and those of us with the Scriptures were told to seek first and we must find first but it is in plain sight. I'd also like to remind everyone that it is always a very good idea to take Mt 23:8-12 and Jn 6:45 very seriously, anne |
||||||