Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | Talmid of Yeshua Ha Maschiach | 193522 | ||
Hi Steve, I used to believe that Sha'ul did indicate the futility of adhering to the Torah in his epistles, but I then noted that the Torah was forever and would not pass away. Anyhow, I will give you a couple of verses that I found helpful in this regard. Acts 24:14 Acts 25:8 Romans 3:31 Romans 6:1,2 Romans 6:15-18 Romans 7:7 Romans 7:12 Romans 7:22 Romans 8:7,8 "To sum up: with my mind, I am a slave of God's Torah; but with my old nature, I am a slave of sin's torah." Your brother in Y'shua HaMashiach, Talmid (Num 6:24-26) |
||||||
2 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 193529 | ||
Hello Talmid, None of these demonstrates that Paul was a Torah-keeping Jew, nor do they promote any Gentile desiring to keep them. Some of them do not even mention Torah, so I have no idea why they are listed. You appear to have turned to Torah to complement your sanctification given by the grace of Christ through faith. Why? Isn't His work sufficient to accomplish all unto the end? Steve |
||||||
3 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | Talmid of Yeshua Ha Maschiach | 193536 | ||
Dear Steve, I am going to list a website that I found helpful, not that I agree with all the things listed there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_in_Christianity I also note that Wikipedia is not the best source, but it has helped me in some areas. Yes, His work is sufficient to accomplish all unto the end. The real reason I follow the Torah is because I love Him and want to obey Him. I am sure that you also love Him and want to obey Him. How we do it seems to be different though. You follow Church Tradition and Doctrine as I follow the Torah and practices found in it. Both of us are sincere in our devotion to Him, because we both seek to do His bidding. Your brother in Y'shua HaMashiach, Talmid (Psalm 112) |
||||||
4 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 193572 | ||
Hello Talmid, I looked at the site. If you are getting your theology from wikipedia, I fear for your spiritual welfare. Peter asked the church leaders in Jerusalem, "Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10 ESV). Peter loved the Lord Jesus, yet he called adherance to the Law unbearable. Jews could not do it, so why expect Gentiles to even try? PEter also lived like a Gentile while in Antioch until he forgot himself (Gal 2:11-14). Did he love Christ less while doing that? Did he step out of fellowship with the Lord and need to confess his transgression? You are romanticizing the law. You have no hope of keeping it. And if you fail in one part, you are guilty of all (James 2:10). Again, why try? In the book of Galatians that I mentioned previously, Paul condemns any reliance of the Law for justification or sanctification. Again, why try? This is not a matter of sincerity, but truth. Steve |
||||||
5 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | Talmid of Yeshua Ha Maschiach | 193575 | ||
Thank you Steve. As I noted in my previous post, Wikipedia is a dubious source and I do not agree with all of it. I studied the Scriptures daily for a long time and I did not find this site till I had already become convicted. It just confirmed some things. Also, Wikipedia is not my only source, I have a great deal of other books relating to this topic, both for and against, that I have read with all diligence in trying to find out the truth. What did Peter mean by "placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers not we have had the strength to bear"? The yoke that he speaks of is the oral tradition and laws that were binding in Rabbinical Judaism, not the actual Torah. Of course, no one could keep these, for they had missed the whole point of the law. Again, this was brought up by the Judaizer sect that wanted all to be circumcised before they could receive salvation. I full heartedly agree with Galations 2:11-16, for Peter was being a hypocrite, all because of his fear of the Judaizing sect. Paul had every right to go off at him! As to whether he loved Y'shua the less and whether he was out of fellowship with Him, he was neither. As I said before, the law is not for salvation. I will repeat it again, the law is not the means of salvation. Naturally, Peter was not at fault in any way, other than that he acted a hypocritical part. I love the law, as much as David did in Psalm 119. I do not romanticize it. Also, I have every hope of keeping it, I may not be perfect (and never will be), but I will try my utmost. Yes, if I do fail one part, I am guilty of breaking them all; but if I do fail, the One who gave them to me and has saved me from all sin, will forgive me and help me to continue on. Again, I try because of John 14:15. Why is it, that people can only see the law as a means unto justification and sanctification? Is it because of the hellenistic mindset that we think in? I don't know, but I don't find faith and works incompatible. John 8:32, that is the truth. I am thankful for your efforts, but I am sorry that you think I am misguided. Your affectionate brother in the body of Christ, Amsel (aka Talmid) |
||||||
6 | New Perspective of Sha'ul | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 193584 | ||
Greetings Talmid! First of all, welcome to the forum! As I read your post, I was reminded that one of the difficulties that I have with your position is that I don't agree that Paul was only speaking about the oral traditions. For instance, in Gal. 3:10, Paul cites Deut. 27:26 as a part of his argument. Was Deut. 27:26 speaking of the Torah or the oral traditions? The assumption that many make is that when Paul speaks of the 'law', he only means the oral traditions, but is this assumption valid? For instance, in Gal. 3:15ff, Paul is clearly speaking of the Torah. Finally, in Gal. 5:4, some were clearly trying to be justified by obeying the Law, contrary to what many writers today tell us. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||