Results 1 - 9 of 9
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | Wild Olive Shoot | 161027 | ||
Lead pipe, You claim: "Faith comes from evidence, anyone who trusts their eternal destiny on something without evidence is never truly sure." My friend, you don't come close to God's definition of faith. Read Hebrews 11:1,2. 1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for. That's what faith is, there is no "evidence". Faith does not come from evidence, it comes from hearing God's word. Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Repost ID# 160873: Dear hetfield, I’ll offer my opinion if you’ll hear it: Our Bible, both Old and New Testaments are the inspired word of God. I’ve seen a definition of biblical inspiration that states it is “the Work of the Holy Spirit by which, without setting aside their personalities and literary or human faculties, God so guided the authors of Scripture as to enable them to write exactly the words which convey His truth to men, and in doing so preserved their judgments from error in the original manuscripts.” Through (fallible) human authors, God manifested the infallible and errorless writings, which convey His messages. If you admit that the New Testament is not the inspired word of God, you must admit then, that is simply the work of fallible humans. If that is the case, how can you further attest to its accuracy and usefulness and its reliability. Throughout the ages men have proven to be unreliable and to history’s account, well history, or our perception of it, depends on who we are and who’s account we read. Example: George Washington was a great hero to the Revolutionary Army of the colonial United States. To England, he was a traitor. His character is depicted differently depending on whose version you read. The same can be said of Benedict Arnold. He was a national hero in one view, a treasonous rebel in another. So to put your trust in the historicity of the New Testament while it was composed and written by uninspired men is dangerous to say the least. How do you know for sure that it is the undeniable truth? If written by uninspired men and therefore not the word of God, then you never really can. Can you? History is infested with fallacy. The New Testament is more than just simply some historical document. It is part of God’s revelation to man. We damage so severely the word of God, our Bible, when we think we can play God and pick and choose what Scripture is inspired and which is not. In doing so, quite quickly, the rest of the Bible begins to unravel. Only God has the authority to decide what is inspired and what is not. Scripture attests to the fact that all of it is inspired, as has been pointed out by numerous people throughout this thread. You can claim this is circular reasoning but that is God’s reasoning. He determined to inspire the men He did to record His word. If God is truth: (John 3:33, Romans 3:4) then you must admit that what is breathed out by God must also be true and infallible. The Holy Spirit is the inspiration behind the Prophets and Apostles. They spoke the truth predicated on that inspiration, which was then recorded for our benefit and secured by God Himself through His Holy Spirit, to ensure that was recorded, remained unadulterated by the “fallible” human authors. Now the Bible cannot save you, that is for sure. But it can direct your ways to discover the One who can, which you attest to already knowing. You seem to put your faith in Christ and strongly and consistently state that, but you diminish the authority of the Word that pointed you in His direction. As you stated: “I can and do believe in Jesus because of the bible.” If your faith is in Christ and your salvation is true, it is because the Holy Spirit, a work of God has made it so. The same Holy Spirit that so divinely inspired the written Word of God in which you question. Just some thoughts. WOS |
||||||
2 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | hetfield | 161086 | ||
So you admit there is no evidence. I can respect that. My reasons for having FAITH in the Accuracy and reliability- written by men who died for the message, they showed personal humility in their struggles and failures, they did'nt do it for the money, women or wine. You quoted above "1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. I am trying to "be sure" and "certain". If someone tell yo to "be sure" and "certain" aren't you going to investigate, think about what you have learned, think about who taught you, what were their motives if any, then take the leap of faith by "being sure and certain" I would and do. I am sure you do this all the time, except with the bible. You said "We damage so severely the word of God, our Bible, when we think we can play God and pick and choose what Scripture is inspired and which is not. In doing so, quite quickly, the rest of the Bible begins to unravel. Only God has the authority to decide what is inspired and what is not." I think your assuming I am some guy looking to evade something that I don't like in the bible. This is not the case. I think the W.O.G. is written on my heart by the power of the spirit ( as the bible states) I find that to be VERY CONVICTING. My faith is based upon faith in Christ not faith in the bible. I have faith that the message in the bible is accurate and reliable. If for some strange reason someone convinced you lets say that the bible had a minor inconsistancy. Would your faith unravel? I hope not. You said "Only God has the authority to decide what is inspired and what is not. Scripture attests to the fact that all of it is inspired, as has been pointed out by numerous people throughout this thread" The quote in timothy in talking about the old testament. The new testament had not yet been compiled. p.s., I read and liked your bio. God has blessed you abundantly! Peace |
||||||
3 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | Wild Olive Shoot | 161109 | ||
But I do see evidence although I do not look for it. I have the eyewitness accounts of the Gospel and the writings of men guided by the Holy Spirit. I don’t feel you are trying to avoid something you don’t like in the Bible, I think you have issues with whether or not it is the word of God and what that actually means. I’m okay with that and trust that if you are truly seeking the truth, God will reveal it in His own time to you. To me, it’s the Word of God simply because He authored it in the sense that He made the Divine Inspiration possible for the men to pen what they did. God chose to reveal to us what He deemed necessary through the strokes of the pens of ordinary men. He’s a magnificent God, capable of more than we could ever imagine. WOS |
||||||
4 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | hetfield | 161110 | ||
You said, "if you are truly seeking the truth, God will reveal it in His own time to you." Same to you. If the bible is the W.O.G. then why would paul have to say in 1 cor 7:10 "To the married I give this command(NOT I, BUT THE LORD)". WHy would he have to say this is from the Lord. Isn't it all from the Lord? If he says this is from the lord here, we should assume that this statement is from the Lord, and not all others. In 1 cor 7:12 "To the rest I say this(I, not the Lord)" So, this is Paul not the Lord. Humm. Not all the W.O.G I will accept 1 Cor 7:10 to be the WOG if you will accept 1 Cor7:12 as not the WOG Peace |
||||||
5 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | Wild Olive Shoot | 161112 | ||
Matthew Henry states it rather well: In general, he tells them that marriage, by Christ's command, is for life; and therefore those who are married must not think of separation. The wife must not depart from the husband (1Co 7:10), nor the husband put away his wife, 1Co 7:11. This I command, says the apostle; yet not I, but the Lord. Not that he commanded any thing of his own head, or upon his own authority. Whatever he commanded was the Lord's command, dictated by his Spirit and enjoined by his authority. But his meaning is that the Lord himself, with his own mouth, had forbidden such separations, Mat 5:32; Mat 19:9; Mar 10:11; Luk 16:18. He brings the general advice home to the case of such as had an unbelieving mate (1Co 7:12): But to the rest speak I, not the Lord; that is, the Lord had not so expressly spoken to this case as to the former divorce. It does not mean that the apostle spoke without authority from the Lord, or decided this case by his own wisdom, without the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. He closes this subject with a declaration to the contrary (1Co 7:40), I think also that I have the Spirit of God. I could never put it better than that right there. Have you ever attempted to find that which supports the Bible as being the Word of God rather than looking for that which would disprove it? I think your search would be more profitable in every way if you attempted to see proofs rather than that which disproves it. Many, many men have been trying for many years to approach his as you seem to be and haven’t been successful. Ah, another proof that the Word of God can stand the test of time and the test of men. Simple uninspired words penned by men couldn’t do that. Do you think? WOS |
||||||
6 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | hetfield | 161118 | ||
"I think also that I have the Spirit of God." You are more sure that Paul is speaking from the spirit than he is. He just thinks it,and you know it. You said "Have you ever attempted to find that which supports the Bible as being the Word of God rather than looking for that which would disprove it? I think your search would be more profitable in every way if you attempted to see proofs rather than that which disproves it." I think that is why I am talking with you. There are other books which are older than the new testmament which have stood the test of time. I think many many men for many years have been trying to prove Jesus didn't exist and the bible is not accurate. I would be interested in knowing if you are aware of anyone accepting accuracy and reliability of the bible yet rejecting the WOG status. |
||||||
7 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | Wild Olive Shoot | 161127 | ||
You wrote: “You are more sure that Paul is speaking from the spirit than he is.” Paul was pretty confident: 1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. Easton’s Bible Dictionary Inspiration That extraordinary or supernatural divine influence vouchsafed to those who wrote the Holy Scriptures, rendering their writings infallible. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” (R.V., “Every scripture inspired of God”), 2Ti_3:16. This is true of all the “sacred writings,” not in the sense of their being works of genius or of supernatural insight, but as “theopneustic,” i.e., “breathed into by God” in such a sense that the writers were supernaturally guided to express exactly what God intended them to express as a revelation of his mind and will. The testimony of the sacred writers themselves abundantly demonstrates this truth; and if they are infallible as teachers of doctrine, then the doctrine of plenary inspiration must be accepted. There are no errors in the Bible as it came from God none have been proved to exist. Difficulties and phenomena we cannot explain are not errors. All these books of the Old and New Testaments are inspired. We do not say that they contain, but that they are, the Word of God. The gift of inspiration rendered the writers the organs of God, for the infallible communication of his mind and will, in the very manner and words in which it was originally given. As to the nature of inspiration we have no information. This only we know, it rendered the writers infallible. They were all equally inspired, and are all equally infallible. The inspiration of the sacred writers did not change their characters. They retained all their individual peculiarities as thinkers or writers. (See BIBLE; WORD OF GOD.) Word of God (Heb_4:12, etc.). The Bible so called because the writers of its several books were God's organs in communicating his will to men. It is his “word,” because he speaks to us in its sacred pages. Whatever the inspired writers here declare to be true and binding upon us, God declares to be true and binding. This word is infallible, because written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and therefore free from all error of fact or doctrine or precept. (See INSPIRATION, BIBLE.) All saving knowledge is obtained from the word of God. In the case of adults it is an indispensable means of salvation, and is efficacious thereunto by the gracious influence of the Holy Spirit (Joh_17:17; 2Ti_3:15, 2Ti_3:16; 1Pe_1:23). WOS |
||||||
8 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | hetfield | 161144 | ||
Ok i am willing to accept that in 1 Cor 14:37 paul s writings about orderlyt worship is the lords command. But think about it. It sounds to me he is flexing his authority, (which he should) But if he has to say, this is from the Lord or the lord commanded this or whatever. Don't you think, hmmm, Maybe he is reffering to the passages before or after his point. Because he is. So what about the rest? 1 Cor 7:40 paul just "thinks" he is. Does paul know what he is writing will be considered some day to be the WOG? Your definition is a little biased dont you think? I am sure Your belief in the bibles being inspired is not because "easton" says so. One more time. 2tim 3:16 is refferrig to the old testament. This is not my opinion ask a WOG believing bible scholar. you wrote "if they are infallible as teachers of doctrine, then the doctrine of plenary inspiration must be accepted." What is the doctrine of plenary? I bet without knowing it is some big word to explain away a problem. But I would be interested in that definition thanks again. |
||||||
9 | Is belief in the bible needed to be save | NT general Archive 1 | Wild Olive Shoot | 161153 | ||
The following are some excerpts from an article by Michael Bremmer. Below it is the web address where you can read it in its entirety. There are some other articles there that you may find interesting. “Inspiration is plenary, meaning the whole Bible is inspired.” “Inspired is the Greek word theopneustos and means "God-breathed." When we say that Scripture is inspired by God we mean the same thing as the apostle Paul, that Scripture is God-breathed. At onetime, this definition was adequate for defining the doctrine of inspiration, but the constant attacks on this doctrine have made it necessary to particularize the definition of inspiration.” “Some insist that not everything in the Bible is Scripture, but only what is inspired can rightly be called Scripture. Not surprisingly, they decide what is inspired and what is not. To illustrate the problem, a person can say that he believes Scripture is inspired by God, yet does not believe that the events in Genesis 1-3 are actually historical events.” “Obviously, the word "Scripture" does not have the same meaning with all, therefore, it is important in any discussion on inspiration that all do have the same understanding of what Scripture means. Those who hold to Biblical view of inspiration agree that the word "Scripture" refers to the whole Bible, all sixty-six books. From Genesis to Revelation, all Scripture is God-breathed. The Scriptures are verbally inspired. Verbal inspiration means every word of Scripture is exactly the words that God meant. This view is supported by both Jesus statements on the subject, and by His use of Scripture. Although the Scriptures teach verbal inspiration, they do not teach the idea of mechanical dictation. The mechanical dictation theory of inspiration teaches that God used the writers of Scripture as robots, only writing as God dictates, and their personality was not a factor in the Scripture's composition. The Scripture, however, teaches the Divine-human authorship. Every word divine; and every stroke of the pen human. The original Scriptures are without error, "Thy word is Truth" (Jn. 17.17). Both the Old and New Testaments are without error in all that they affirm. They are truth without any mixture of error. Inspiration is plenary, meaning the whole Bible is inspired. The apostle Paul states, "All Scripture is inspired of God" (2 Tm. 3.16), not "Some Scripture is inspired of God." However, there are some who do not believe that all Scripture is inspired of God. We will now consider some of these partial inspiration views.” -- Michael Bremmer Please read the entire article at: http://www.mbrem.com/bible/bible.htm Concerning plenary: plenary is simply defined as being “full in all respects”. So plenary inspiration would indicate that God inspired all scripture. Inspiration - "That extraordinary supernatural influence exerted by the Holy Ghost on the writers of our Sacred Books, by which their words were rendered also the words of God, and therefore, perfectly infallible." (by Benjamin Warfield, The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible, P R, 1948; page 420) Verbal Inspiration - The inspiration extends to the very words of Scripture. Plenary Inspiration - The inspiration extends to every part of Scripture. Verbal Plenary Inspiration - This is the traditional orthodox view. It teaches a verbal inspiration, meaning that the Holy Spirit guided the human choice of every word in the original autographs. However, the human authorship was respected and the characteristics pf the human author was preserved. It teaches a plenary inspiration, always meaning that every portion of the original autographs is equally inspired, resulting in an inerrant, infallible and authoritative record of divine revelation. This is the best view for maintaining the "dual authorship" of the Bible. "By the term dual authorship two facts are indicated, namely, that, on the divine side, the Scriptures are the Word of God in the sense that they originate with Him and are the expressions of His mind alone; and, on the human side, certain men have been chosen of God for the high honor and responsibility of receiving God's Word and transcribing it into written form" (Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol . 1 of 8, page 72). http://www.calvarychapel.com/redbarn/terms You ask: “Does paul know what he is writing will be considered some day to be the WOG?” I don’t know if he knew it would be compiled into a book with the others, but he spoke with the authority of speaking the word of God. He knew his source of inspiration. He specified he spoke with the authority of the Holy Spirit. WOS |
||||||