Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | Pam D | 100835 | ||
Dear Ed, Do you and Joe not play well together? If so, it's too bad. Both of you seem to have a lot of knowledge and wisdom to offer. How does that saying go, "Iron sharpens iron"? I find that when someone disagrees with me, it forces me back to the Scriptures to make sure I have not made an error. Or if I still think I am "right" it still forces me back to the Scriptures so that I can explain my position in a better way. I also find that just because someone might be what I consider to be "wrong" on one subject does not necessiarly mean they will be "wrong" on another subject. In fact, just when I am getting a little cocky, I find that I am the one who is "wrong"! I think on this position with regard to practical sanctification you are both saying the same thing but from different angles. Joe is speaking from a theological perspective of how it all works and you are speaking from the perspective of how to put it into practice. Both perspectives were extremely helpful. Blessings, Pam PS I forgot to send you the first answer Joe sent. Here it is: JOE SAID: Your self-effort before you are saved is a pointless exercise, because no one can attain the perfection that God requires. We all have sinned, and legalism (the idea of earning salvation by law-keeping) is thoroughly refuted in Scripture. We need the imputed righteousness of Christ to be able to stand before an infinitely holy God. The key is understanding that you were not saved just so that you will go to heaven, but so that God's glory would be displayed through your sanctification. So, the Spirit of God motivates us and empowers us to fight against our old sin nature, to put sin to death (Colossians 3). Our role in our sanctification is to wage "no-holds-barred" war against our sin and thereby glorify God (1 Peter 2:11-12). To do this, we rely on God's Spirit that is working within us to give us the strength to do so, and we make use of the means of grace God has given us (word, sacraments, prayer) as our tools and weapons in this struggle. None of those things is effectual in the life of the unbeliever seeking to establish his own righteousness (other than to be used as visual aids for a hypocritical legalism), but they are God's gifts to the Christian, ways in which the Spirit works to glorify the Triune God through our cooperation and transformation (Romans 12:2). A great book on this subject is _The Discipline of Grace_ by Jerry Bridges: http://www.discerningreader.com/disofgracjer.html --Joe! |
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2 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 100840 | ||
Pam Joe and I come from two different view points, our basic theology differs. I would like to think mine is the correct one, but I know it isn't totally correct. Mainly because God hasn't totally revealed everything on the subjects upon which we differ. However I have and do learn from Joe. And I agree with what he said in your last quote of him. By the way I read pretty much all the posts on the forum so I saw what Joe said. Had I severely disagreed I would have jumped in. We are forgiven of our sins and being under the blood any new sin is hidden from God, however Jesus clearly said if you love me you will obey my commandments John 14:15. While we must rely on grace for our salvation we still have the responsibility to drive sin from our lives and steer toward holiness. I see our relationship with Jesus as being most vital . Sin effects that relationship, our conscience is troubled and communication lines get crossed. As we sin or walk in sin our relationship with Jesus diminishes. We become troubled, distressed, open to attack, fear and loneliness permeate our lives. However as we walk holy the relationship seems to bloom, to flourish, to prosper. In my life the more I separated my flesh from the world and focused more on Jesus my relationship with Jesus gets stronger. My life became better, more meaningful, richer and more purposeful. I feel fulfilled and this is drawing me yet closer to Jesus and further from the lust of the world. The key here is the word separated, if we look at the word sanctify we see it’s meaning of; set apart, to separate, to reserve, made holy for service of the Lord. Sanctification is our conscience effort along with work of the Holy Spirit to separate ourselves from the lusts of flesh and this world to walk in a closer relationship with Christ. Stay with it your on the track. EdB |
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3 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | Pam D | 100864 | ||
Dear Ed, May I ask what different viewpoints you and Joe are coming from? Election? Covenant Theology? Escatology? Other? I find it helpful to know what theological bias (everyone has a theological bias) someone is coming from so I can discern why they are saying what they are saying and still benefit. I think for some it colors their view too much so they are unwilling to hear what the other person has to say. But I personally like to hear all sides and prayerfully meditate on them and come to my own answers. After all, I have been wrong from a theological perspective before (i.e. Keswick sanctification), and I suppose it will probably happen again ! Blessings, Pam PS I most wholeheartedly agree that our relationship with Jesus is the MOST vital thing. And I loved your final statement -“Sanctification is our conscience effort along with the Holy Spirit to seperate ourselves from the lusts of the flesh and this world to walk in a closer relationship with Christ.” It pretty much summarizes the what, how and why of practical sanctification ! Funny thing - this is exactly what I was doing before I got messed up in the wrong Keswick understanding of practical sanctification! |
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4 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 100874 | ||
Pam Joe is basically a Calvinist, I'm not. I believe the process of salvation remains a wonderful mystery that both God through His Holy Spirit and man play a part in. I think all men are mystically (I'm not trying to get la la here) brought to a place where they have to make a choice but their choice does not always favor God. John favors the view that only those chosen by God are offered the choice and once offered do not refuse it. To me the mystery is how God brings man to this position and secondly why some accept and others reject it. If you want to know why I hesitate to discuss this further do a search on Calvinism and Arminianism or election or Calvin. I remind you the of the caution at the beginning of the forum it was placed there to prevent continuing endless hateful and hurtful debates on this exact subject. EdB |
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5 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | Pam D | 100882 | ||
Dear Ed, Agreed - let's not go there. Any other differences? Blessings, Pam |
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6 | What is God's part in my santification?. | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 100910 | ||
Pam No aside from the fact he is calvinist and I'm not. EdB |
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