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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 90116 | ||
Dear NC, I'm not moved by loud protestations either. Our problem is that many sincere believers, after having studied the whole of Scripture, have arrived at a different conclusion which is that those spoken of as departing the faith, have done so because they were mere professers. I will say that your position is consistant with 5 point arminianism. A view that sees man as the master of his own fate and the captain of his own soul. If you are correct, your position will harmonize with the entire written Word. Please show how the clay became the potter, and moulded himself into a vessel for destruction. John has clearly stated that those who departed were never "of us". 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. John |
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2 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 90217 | ||
Potter and Clay Part 3 5. To the doctrine of this lecture it is further objected, that if one is a reprobate it is of no use for him to try to be saved. If God knows what he will be in character, and designs his destruction, it is impossible that it should be otherwise than as God knows and designs, and therefore one may as well give up in despair first as last. (1.) To such an objector I would say, you do not know that you are a reprobate, and therefore you need not despair. (2.) If God designs to cast you off, though you cannot know this, it is only because He foresees that you will not repent and believe the gospel; or in other words, for your voluntary wickedness. He foreknows that you will be wicked simply because you will be, and not because His foreknowledge makes you so. Neither His foreknowledge respecting your character, nor His design to cast you off, in consequence of your character, has any agency in making you wicked. You are therefore perfectly free to obey and be saved, and the fact that you will not, is no reason why you should not. (3.) You might just as reasonably make the same objection to every thing that takes place in the universe. Everything that did, or will, or can occur, is as infallibly known to God, as the fact of your wickedness and destruction is. He also has a fixed and eternal design about everything that ever did or will occur. He knows how long you will live, where you will live, and when and where you will die. His purposes respecting these and all other events are fixed, eternal, and unchangeable. Why, then, do you not live without food and say, I cannot make one hair black or white; I cannot die before my time, nor can I prolong my days beyond the appointed time, do what I will; therefore, I will take no care of my health? No this would be unreasonable. Why not also apply this objection to everything, and settle down in despair of ever doing or being anything, but what an irresistible fate makes you? The fact is, that the true doctrine, whether of election or reprobation, affords not the least countenance to such a conclusion. The foreknowledge and designs of God respecting our conduct or our destiny, do not in the least degree interfere with our free agency. We, in every case, act just as freely as if God neither knew nor designed anything about our conduct. Suppose the farmer should make the same objection to sowing his seed, and to doing anything to secure a crop; what would be thought of him? And yet he might with as much reason, since he can plead the foreknowledge and designs of God, as an excuse for doing nothing to secure his salvation. God as really knows now whether you will sow and whether you will have a crop, and has from eternity known this, as perfectly as He ever will. He has either designed that you shall, or that you shall not, have a crop this year, from all eternity; and it will infallibly come to pass just as He has foreseen and designed. Yet you are really just as free to raise a crop, or to neglect to do so, as if He neither knew nor designed anything about it. The man who will stumble either at the doctrine of election or reprobation, as defined and maintained in these lectures, should, to be consistent, stumble at everything that takes place, and never try to accomplish anything whatever; because the designs and the foreknowledge of God extend equally to everything; and unless He has expressly revealed how it will be, we are left in the dark, in respect to any event, and are left to use means to accomplish what we desire, or to prevent what we dread, as if God knew and designed nothing about it. 6. But it is objected, that this is a discouraging doctrine, and liable to be a stumbling-block, and therefore should not be inculcated. I answer: (1.) It is taught in the Bible, and plainly follows also from the attributes of God, as revealed in the reason. The scriptures that teach it are not less likely to be a snare and a stumbling-block, than are the definition and explanation of the doctrine. (2.) The proper statement, explanation, and defense of the doctrines of election and reprobation, are important to a proper understanding of the nature and attributes of God. (3.) The scriptures that teach these doctrines are often subjects of cavil, and sometimes of real difficulty. Religious teachers should, therefore, state these doctrines and explain them, so as to aid the inquirer after truth, and stop the mouths of gainsayers. (4.) Again, these doctrines have often been so misstated and perverted as to make them amount to an iron system of fatalism. Many souls have heard or read these perversions, and greatly need to be enlightened upon the subject. It is therefore all the more important, that these truths should find a place in religious instruction. Let them be understood, properly stated, explained, and defended, and they can no more be a stumbling-block, than the fact of God's omniscience can be so. NC |
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3 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 90241 | ||
1. To the idea that God rejected the reprobate for their foreseen wickedness, it is replied that "The Lord hath made all things for Himself; yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov. 16:4), teaches another doctrine; that this passage teaches, that God made the reprobates for the day of evil, or for the purpose of destroying them. This is a strawman objection, which the writer props up, and then easily, knocks down. I for one, do not offer this objection and do not know an orthodox calvinist that does! I believe that God's eternal purpose for mankind is to bring glory unto Himself. For this reason He chose some men to recieve MERCY and others to recieve JUSTICE. His choosing was in no way unfair to any, for He would have been justified in condemning all. It is also true that, in a way which our minds are not able to fully comprehend, God does not force man to sin, nevertheless, even sins are pre-ordained. Joseph and his brothers for instance. They meant Joseph's captivity in Egypt for evil but God meant it for good. I would be very wary of Mr. Finney's theolology."Finney is often portrayed as a moderate who fought against hyper-Calvinist influences. It's true that hyper-Calvinism (a corruption of Calvinist doctrine that nullifies or minimizes human responsibility) was on the rise in New England, and Finney had probably been exposed to it. In fact, it is fair to say that hyper-Calvinism had a major hand in creating the cold spiritual climate in which Finney's errors flourished. The popular reception of Finney's teaching was certainly in large part an overreaction against the errors of hyper-Calvinism."...Notice that under the guise of condemning "hyper-Calvinism," Finney expressly attacked the idea that people are fallen and depraved because of a sinful nature inherited from Adam. That is the doctrine of original sin, not a hyper-Calvinist dogma, but a standard tenet of Christian doctrine—and recognized as such by all mainstream Christians since the Pelagian heresy of the Fifth Century. Note, too, that Finney rejected the idea that sinners are totally unable to please God (contra Rom. 8:7-8). Again, total inability is no hyper-Calvinist notion, but a biblical truth defended by Augustine and the Protestant Reformers alike."... "In other words, it was not merely hyper-Calvinism—or even simple Calvinism—that Finney rejected, but the biblical essentials of sola fide and sola gratia (justification by faith alone through grace alone). In effect, Finney also abandoned sola scriptura (the authority and sufficiency of Scripture), as shown by his constant appeal to rationalism in support of his new theology. The movement he led therefore represents the wholesale abandonment of historic Protestant principles." (Phil Johnson) John Reformed |
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4 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 90277 | ||
Dear John you stated; "even sins are pre-ordained" If you believe that then, that would mean God is the author of sin, which He isn't John, What I notice in your writings, is persistance, in defending anything or anyone who disagrees with Calvinism. And thats fine if thats what you want to believe. Many of us however fail to see the Bibical support for much of Calvinism. My choice is to remain distant from any theological system such as Calvinism that attempts to say that "all" and "whosoever" doesn't really mean "all" and "whosoever". God doesn't stutter So lets just agree to disagree. In His service New creature |
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5 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 90283 | ||
No NC, I hope that I will never be content to "agree to disagree". God is not the author of sin. Theological systems are not wrong in themselves. All does NOT always mean all! It is constrained by the context in which it appears. John |
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