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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 90202 | ||
New Creature, first let me refer to a statement in your post 90179, "I personally believe I have been fair in my treatment of his sermon, especially seeing how Spurgeon himself contradicts prior statements, and sort of speaks with a forked tongue." ..... I believe that you believe you were fair. I don't doubt in the least that you had anything but honorable motives in quoting from Spurgeon's sermon. Since you have declared your perceived fairness and I believe your declaration, I must look for another reason why your excerpts from his sermon, the title of which, by the way, is Final Perseverance. so broadly misleads the reader into thinking that C. H. Spurgeon did not believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, also called eternal security. And since clearly I don't suspect any willful attempt to mislead on your part, I suggest as a tentative hypothesis the probability that you may not have a clear understanding of the theme and chief point of Spurgeon's sermon, because if you did, you would not use this sermon or any parts of it to show that the regenerate believer is not secure in his salvation. The central focus of Spurgeon's sermon was to show that it is impossible for a child of God to fall away. This sermon is, as I say, an extremely unlikely example for one to use as an exhibit to show that a truly born-again believer can ever fall away and find himself in the impossible position of needing to be born-again, again! ..... So, I must conclude that, even though unwittingly, your quotations from Spurgeon's sermon were unfair to the preacher and misleading to the forum. We come back again to that troublesome word 'context.' We all know how misleading and unreliable it is to try to exegete snippets of Scripture lifted out of context. It is possible to make Scripture seem to say things that it really doesn't say at all when we isolate passages by lifting them out of context. I'll close with a short example relating to baptism. In a former post to you I said, and you agreed, that I believe in baptism and in regeneration. Then I went on to say that I do not believe in baptism that regenerates. Suppose someone wished to quote me (I'm flattered!) and said, "Hank says he does not believe in baptism." -- but neglected to include the last two words, "that regenerates." That's an extreme example perhaps of quoting out of context, but extreme examples are extremely common! ..... Lastly, I am quite familiar with Spurgeon's sermon and in my readings if there are instances of his having contradicted himself or having spoken with a "forked tongue" I missed them entirely. In case I've lost readers who have no idea who Spurgeon is or which of his sermons I've been referring to in this post, please go to www.Spurgeon.org/sermons/0075.htm. Grace to you, New Creature! --Hank | ||||||
2 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 90207 | ||
Dear Hank It's not that I don't believe and agree with you that Spurgeon definitely was a man who believed in Calvinism's teaching of Eternal Security. He did. I never intended or specifically stated otherwise about Spurgeon. All I merely did was use part of that message from him, where I believe I could agree with Spurgeon. I probably should have specifically stated that to eliminate any confusion. In the instances where I quoted Mr. Spurgeon, I personally believe he was right on track Scripturally. I found no use to quote him further since I believe he later in the very same message, as well as many other messages contradicts his ownself with statements he previously makes. It is my honest opinion that Spurgeon never remained Bibically consistant in his sermons, but appears to me to have made many contradictions in his messages. Thats why I said he appears to me to be a man who spoke with a forked tongue. Spurgeon even seems to me, to disagree with many of his Calvinistic brothers who say we don't have a will. Here is an example "Spurgeon stated: In his sermon #442 God's Will and Man's Will www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0442.htm "there is a class of strong-minded hard-headed men who magnify sovereignty at the expense of responsibility." "the will of man has its proper position in the work of salvation, and is not to be ignored." "When a man receives the grace of Christ, he does not receive it against his will." "We are not saved against our will; nor again, mark you, is the will taken away; for God does not come and convert the intelligent free-agent into a machine." "When he turns the slave into a child, it is not by plucking out of him the will which he possesses." "men are not saved against their wills." So my freind Hank, I believe that I can find things that Spurgeon stated that I believe are Bibical, while at the same time disagreeing with him, when I personally believe he departs from Scripture. In His service New Creature |
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3 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 90366 | ||
New Creature: I've read and re-read and pondered over your posts on this thread, and I am convinced beyond any reservation that you DID NOT quote Spurgeon with any intent to mislead or twist his meaning. If in any of my posts on this thread you or anyone else feels that I insinuated that you did, I sincerely apologize and humbly beg forgiveness. Even though to quote Spurgeon as you did may have led to some confusion, I feel that you deserve full exoneration from any accusation or suggestion of deliberately trying to mislead this forum. My careful study of your posts on this thread has enlightened me greatly on your purpose and intent, and whether I happen to agree or disagree with your views is not germane to the issue: I find no cause whatever to question your integrity or impugn your motives. So, lest this thread run even more amok, what would you say to the suggestion that we knit it and forget it, as best we can, and move on to matters of more consequence and, it is hoped, less explosive than this dreadfully grueling fiasco has turned out to be! I rue my role in contributing to the making of a mountain out of a mole hill. :-) I remain, as ever, yours in Christ. --Hank. | ||||||
4 | What are your views of once saved always | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 90373 | ||
Hank Thank you for your kind reply. I know that often my posted words appear rude, crude, and unpolished. I have had no real formal education. I do consider myself to be an unpolished diamond with rough edges, but wasn't it the Pharisees who accused Peter and John of being unlearned men? Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus I personally believe that since God can use a dumb ass to speak, (2 Pet. 2:16 "the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.") he can also make this uneducated and unlearned mule to speak as well. But nevertheless, I will continue to speak as long as God gives me life and breath, and utterance. And will continue to boldly speak what I firmly believe God has been teaching me through His word and personal experience. Thanks again Brother Hank With the love of Christ Jesus New Creature |
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