Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79562 | ||
"Oh, I thought before the Cross was Old Testament." To be technical about it, Jesus instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper. "But maybe you know something else. Hebrews 9 shows the Old in force until the Cross." It shows that the system of sacrifices was still in force, but as the epistle clearly teaches elsewhere: "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." --Hebrews 10:4 No one has ever been saved by keeping the Law, because no one has ever kept it to the extent that God requires (with the exception of Christ, of course). Likewise, slitting Lambchop's throat at the temple in itself did not save anyone, but rather prefigured the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The Savior of the Old Testament saints was not grazing out back with the rest of the flock. He was in heaven waiting for the appointed time to become a man and die for the sins of all of God's people of all ages. You wrote: "About the ruler, he wanted to go to heaven but walked away sad. Was that because he did not obey Jesus?" The Bible says: 'Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.' --Matthew 19:21-22 You wrote: "You quote passages of works and shouldn't." Why not? Am I mistaken that the writers of the New Testament command believers to DO things in light of their new nature? "I want you to be careful not to emphasize works." You mean like Paul does? "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." --Ephesians 2:10 "But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." --1 Timothy 4:7-10 You wrote: " No true Christian will lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery." Are you saying that you never sin? "You talk that faith must do works to be genuine, but I was saved by a non-genuine faith?" No one is saved by a faith that is not genuine. The question is, according to the Bible, what shows our faith to be genuine? You wrote: "Forbid it that a working faith be needed." James wrote: 'What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.' --James 2:14-17 You wrote: "I just have faith which God gave me. I did nothing for salvation." Absolutely true. "So why tell people to obey?" Good question. Why do you think all the New Testament writers instruct Christians to obey? You wrote: "That takes the glory from God." Not at all. Our God-honoring works, while they do not qualify us for salvation, bring Him great glory. And that is why we exist, to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. That is the very purpose for which God saved Christians. You wrote: "Do you not agree that Romans 10:9,10 are the most important verses in the Holy Scipture?" No, I believe that "all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (Yes, works again!) So much damage can be done by isolating a single verse or two and interpreting the rest of the Bible in light of what one assumes that brief statement means. We have seen many on this Forum quote Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 in every single post they submit, in order to support baptismal regeneration. People isolate James 2 to promote a salvation based on works. And, yes, people isolate John 3:16 to support a works-less theology. The fact is that the church needs the rest of the Bible to help us figure out what Romans 10:9-10 precisely means. Blessings to you! --Joe! |
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2 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | inhisname | 79571 | ||
"To be technical about it, Jesus instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper." To be really technical, he only wrote His will during this time of his life, but it went into force at His death. Hebrews 9 veses 15-17 says, "For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. FOR A COVENANT IS VALID ONLY WHEN MEN ARE DEAD, FOR IT IS NEVER IN FORCE WHILE THE ONE WHO MADE IT LIVES." If you deny this then I've got nothing else to say to you because it is clear. About the works you like to emphasize, God does them and not man. If they come, they come because God does them. No sense trying to do them. That's human effort. If they don't come then God didn't elect that person. God is glorified in both. You like to mention what God does and leave out the Philippians 2:13 which proves my point. "Why do you think all the New Testament writers instruct Christians to obey?" Because the word obey means believe and God gives me the belief. God tells me to work and He does the work. People talk about works and baptism but you have to admit if they don't do them then God didn't want them done. He only cares about faith which He gives as a gift. But emphasizing passages about obedience puts pressure on me to do, then where is the glory to God? That's all I can write. |
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3 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79577 | ||
"You like to mention what God does and leave out the Philippians 2:13 which proves my point." The sentence which contains Philippians 2:13 begins in the previous verse. What does that verse say? To ignore the first half of Paul's comment is just as wrong as ignoring the second half. "About the works you like to emphasize..." Me, or the New Testament? You still haven't explained how you fit God telling Christians to do things (not merely to believe things, but to outwardly demonstrate that belief) into your theology. "God does them and not man." Really. So Paul is telling God to love my wife as Christ loved the church, and he commands God to abstain from sexual immorality, and Peter tells God to make my calling and election sure, and Peter tells God to live in subjection to the earthly authorities? God certainly gives the strength and accomplishes the sanctification, but Christians are active partners in the endeavor, just as Paul laid it out: "For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me." --Colossians 1:29 Who labors? Who strives? Paul. From Whom does the power come? God. "If they come, they come because God does them." Scriptural support for this? "No sense trying to do them." So when God tells me to refrain from sexual immorality, there is no sense in me trying to do that? You don't really pattern your life after taking God's commandments as meaningless, do you? "If they don't come then God didn't elect that person." Well, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean at all that God is obeying Himself in my life. What you do seem to be saying is that the works are the primary evidence of salvation, which is my point entirely. "Because the word obey means believe and God gives me the belief." Where do you get the idea that "obey" merely means "believe"? "People talk about works and baptism but you have to admit if they don't do them then God didn't want them done." Why do I have to admit that? Scripture does not teach that he is indifferent about our disobedience. And lest we forget, the command to be baptized came "after the Cross." You wrote: "He only cares about faith which He gives as a gift." The Bible teaches: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith WORKING through love." --Galatians 5:6 Sanctification is a work of God's free grace, but it most certainly involves the obedience that God brings about but that WE do. "But emphasizing passages about obedience puts pressure on me to do, then where is the glory to God?" In your faithful obedience to Him. God is not glorified by do-nothing "believers." Do you think that lazy, pew-sitting, disobedient churchgoers display God's glory? How is God glorified if we do not do anything? Did the apostles glorify God by inaction? "That's all I can write." I wish you would write, specifically addressing some of the Scriptures I have brought up. If you are right, you have to reasonably integrate the passages I have brought up into your works-less worldview. We can't pick and choose the parts of the Bible we are going to cling to. --Joe! |
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4 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | inhisname | 79600 | ||
You misunderstand. A Christian is known because of his actions. So obvious is that. Does God save me before I do a work? Yes. Is salvation from first to last day by faith alone? Yes. Clearly you bark up the wrong pole. Abraham got righteousness by faith alone. Where are the works there? I think you are misunderstanding and caught. If I did the work then the glory would be to me. I don't want that. blessings inhisname |
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5 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79615 | ||
"You misunderstand. A Christian is known because of his actions. So obvious is that." And actions are works, are they not? "Does God save me before I do a work? Yes." Absolutely true. "Is salvation from first to last day by faith alone? Yes." Again, I agree. "Abraham got righteousness by faith alone. Where are the works there?" Resulting from his saving faith: "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect " --Hebrews 11:8-10 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God." --James 2:21-23 "I think you are misunderstanding and caught." How so? "If I did the work then the glory would be to me." With all due respect, are we having a conversation here or not. This is StudyBibleForum.com, where we discuss the Bible. I have presented several passages which show that while God works in us, we do indeed do the works. You have not addressed a single one of those passages to show me how I am "misunderstanding and caught," whatever that means. --Joe! |
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6 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | inhisname | 79652 | ||
"With all due respect?" Have I not discussed the Bible? Have I not referenced Bible? Isn't Romans 10 verse 9 the plan of God to save? Did I not say that. God does it all, do you disagree? You did not answer my question "Abraham got righteousness by faith alone. Where are the works there?" by saying "Resulting from his saving faith". That means nothing to me, maybe you can explain it better. You cannot tell me that I'm saved without a work from first to last and then start telling me it's all about works. If you now expect a disciple to obey then you expect works. My understanding of Romans is that salvation is by faith only until death. I don't think you mean to suggest different. My humble opinion is you are misunderstandin me and caught. |
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7 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 79679 | ||
Apparently nothing that others say means anything to you. My humble opinion is that you are misunderstanding all that others have tried to explain to you. Maybe you could try harder to understand it. |
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