Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | revbob4him | 4591 | ||
I have a completely different view than the Calvinistic view. I believe the Bible clearly teaches that God is patient as He compassionately waits for everyone (who will believe) to believe the gospel and get saved. It says in 2Peter 3.9 that He wishes NONE would perish! Well if the Lord "picked and chose" who He wanted saved I would consider Him a liar to tell me He desires NONE to perish, and then "pick" only a remnant to be eternally saved (i.e. send people to hell.) God "elects" only those He FOREKNOWS will believe the gospel. The Lord "sees" the past, present and future ALL at the same time. He FOREKNOWS who will choose to accept His Son as their savior, and those whom He knows will choose His SON, are called CHOSEN or CALLED ones. We're NOT CHOSEN or CALLED because GOD picked us to be saved. We're CHOSEN or CALLED because the Lord FORKNEW we would choose to accept the free gift of eternal life. People are NOT TOTALLY depraved. In the parable of the Sower the last man mentioned received the Word of the gospel with an HONEST and SINCERE Heart. The Lord did NOT (directly) give that man an honest and sincere heart. That man (who was made with a FREE WILL, chose to have an HONEST and SINCERE heart (towards spiritual matters) and as a result the message of the gospel really motivated him to not only believe the gospel but also serve the One Who died for him. In 1Timothy 2.4 the Bible says that the Lord DESIRES ALL men to come to the KNOWLEDGE of truth so as to be saved. That teaching is about as far from Calvinism as one could get. The Lord has PREDETERMINED that ALL people must go through Jesus Christ to be saved. And the Lord has PREDETERMINED that ALL those who do get saved MUST (if they want to be pleasing children) conform to the image of His Son. But in my opinion, nothing in Scriptures teaches me that God picks and chooses who He will or will not save. revbob |
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2 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 4633 | ||
Second Peter 3:9 must be put in its context to see who the "none" is. In this chapter, Peter is addressing those who are asking why Christ has not returned yet, why the resurrection of all men has not occurred (v. 4). The apostle contends that God's timetable is not our own (v. 8), and then says that he is holding back the end because he "is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." Who is the "you" being referred to here? If we look at the first verse of the chapter, we see that Peter is addressing believers. If The addressees are already saved, why is God being patient toward them? The answer is that in addressing the entire church, Peter proclaims that God is not willing that any of the elect should perish, but come to repentence. It does not make sense in the context to think that "all" means "all men," rather than "all of you" (i.e. the elect). Why would God be holding back the end for almost 2,000 years so far, waiting for everyone to come to reprentance? Both of us will agree that universalism is not a Biblical dosctrine. People going to Hell is just. If I were not among the elect, I would merely be getting what I deserve in facing eternal wrath from an infinitely holy God. The fact that I am saved is thanks to God's mercy and his grace. I think that all who understand the depth of our sinful rebellion against God (Romans 3:10-18) would agree that we do not deserve salvation. None of us are "entitled" to it. The fact that God shows mercy to some and not others is clearly expressed in Romans 9. The "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:4 means "all kinds of men," unless in verses 1 and 2 "all men" and "kings and those in authority" are two different groups as well. The fact is that Ephesians 1 points out that those who are (or will be) believers have been predestined before the world began, based not on God's foreknowledge of our choices, but rather according to his own will (1:5,9,11). In John 6:37,38 Jesus himself unequivocally says that those that the Father GIVES to Christ will come to Him. He says the same thing in John 10:25-29. God is not unjust for allowing some to go to Hell while he rescues those he will. If God were acting solely on the basis of justice we would ALL go to Hell and Christ would never have come. On the other hand, if he is required to show mercy to all, then it becomes something we each are entitled to, which is the exact opposite of what mercy is. While the issue of free will is not a salvific one, it certainly is important to gain a deeper understanding of who God is and our purpose in evangelism. If you can interpret Romans 9 in an Arminian light, I would be happy to discuss it with you, revbob. It just seems that the passage is undeniably Calvinist in its approach to salvation. --Joe! |
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3 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | revbob4him | 6889 | ||
Joe, The verse in 2Peter 3.9 says ..... not wishing for ANY to PERISH but for ALL to come to repentance. What has REPENTANCE (if one is TRULY and ETERNALLY saved) got to do with me staying saved? How can a True born-again Believer perish? Why would Peter may such a redundit statement to people who are already saved? The context is about the future terrifying day of the Lord. Peter says the Lord is "holding back" on returning because of His desire that ALL people EVERYWHERE be saved. In closing God would be a VERY UNJUST God if He went against His promise that Jesus died for ALL, and YET only those He "picks" will ever get into heaven. God would also be a liar if He picks who gets saved and who goes to hell because Jesus says ALL that come to me will NEVER be cast out. EZE 33:11 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?' DEU 4:29 "But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul. 1TH 2:16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved; 1TI 2:3-4---- This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. TIT 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 1CO 7:16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife? (Where's the PREDESTINATION in this verse? I believe Ephesians 1.4-5 is NOT talking about God picking people to be saved, it's about Who and what "method" God uses to get anybody saved. These two verse are saying that God PREDETERMINED who (i.e.Jesus) people would have to go through if they wanted to be saved. Ephesians is not saying we are predestined to salvation. If you read the verse grammatically correct it says we (which would include both saved and unsaved) were predestined to HAVE TO go through God's Son in order to be saved. It was God's goodness, graciousness and kindness which "allowed" that to happen. I believe Romans 9 is NOT talking about personal salvation. I believe were dealing with national salvation. Because Israel (for the most part) rejected Jesus God rejected them. The Jews are still God's "chosen" people BUT they are no longer a "blessed" people. They have been "cut off" (lost nationally) from the main tree body (God) and the Gentiles have been "grafted" in (saved nationally.) |
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