Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 26685 | ||
Don't assume I am unfamiliar................... I know your line of thought. Why should I put Romans 4 in context with James 2? Better to work out the meaning of Rom 4 and James 2, then comparing them. Romans 4 is teaching that man is justified by faith alone apart from any work. James 2 is a response to a question concerning the proof of faith in someone's life. Two different subjects. Gen 15:6 (where Abraham is declared righteous upon belief) occurs several years before Gen 22 (where the faith is put to the ultimate test). Do we say that Abraham was yet lost until he was willing to offer up Isaac? I think not. He was declared righteous upon belief. No action was necessary. And it was only after this righteousness was imputed did Abraham receive the sign of circumcision. And besides trying to tell us that salvation occurs at baptism, you state that God saves some in a completely different way. You are preaching two gospels, and both are different from the truth. Steve |
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2 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 26840 | ||
The point being made was that baptism isn't a work but it is an act of obedience to Gods command. I don't preach two gospels but one. Rightousness in the old test. was obtained through the same faith that saves us in the new test. but with different conditions. Gen. 12 God called Abram to leave his country. His faith was shown from the very beginning through his obedience. The new test. commands us to be baptized (Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16:Matt. 28:18-20). Your faith is reflected in your obedience to Gods command. Kin |
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3 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 26843 | ||
Objection............................ "Rightousness in the old test. was obtained through the same faith that saves us in the new test. but with different conditions." If it's the same faith, why change the conditions? Why would God decide that what worked from Genesis through Malachi would no longer work afterward? When did it change? At the incarnation? At the cross? At the ascension? At Pentecost? Steve |
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4 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 27292 | ||
The old test. sacrifices were animals and couldn't completely cleanse. Jesus is the new "condition". Completed at his death. The curtain of the temple was ripped in two. Signifing the end of the old covenent and the beginning of the new. Baptism is "being buried with him in his death..."Rom 6:1-10. No one was buried in Jesus death in the old test. He came, died and estalished it at "the proper time." God changed the "conditions" because The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God."First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Kin |
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5 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 27295 | ||
The Lord Jesus is not a condition. What His death provided was what the OT sacrifices were pointing to (which you pointed out). We no longer have to do those things to be covered for our sins. The condition has not changed--salvation has been and always will be by faith. It is the only condition. The works done are evidence of the reality of the faith in us. Romans 6 has nothing to do with justification. It begins a section addressing our Christian walk. Steve |
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6 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 27544 | ||
I like to use the example in 2 Kings 5. Although it has nothing to do with salvation, it has a lot to do with faith and illustrates a good point. Now Naaman was commander of the army of the king of Aram. He was a great man in the sight of his master and highly regarded, because through him the LORD had given victory to Aram. He was a valiant soldier, but he had leprosy. Now bands from Aram had gone out and had taken captive a young girl from Israel, and she served Naaman's wife.She said to her mistress, "If only my master would see the prophet who is in Samaria! He would cure him of his leprosy." Naaman went to his master and told him what the girl from Israel had said. "By all means, go," the king of Aram replied. "I will send a letter to the king of Israel." So Naaman left, taking with him ten talents of silver, six thousand shekels of gold and ten sets of clothing.The letter that he took to the king of Israel read: "With this letter I am sending my servant Naaman to you so that you may cure him of his leprosy."As soon as the king of Israel read the letter, he tore his robes and said, "Am I God? Can I kill and bring back to life? Why does this fellow send someone to me to be cured of his leprosy? See how he is trying to pick a quarrel with me!"When Elisha the man of God heard that the king of Israel had torn his robes, he sent him this message: "Why have you torn your robes? Have the man come to me and he will know that there is a prophet in Israel." So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elishas house.Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed." But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage. Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, Wash and be cleansed!" So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. Then Naaman and all his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, "Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. Please accept now a gift from your servant." Point to make is this: Naaman went on the word of the servant girl to be healed. When arriving at the prophets house he didn’t get what he expected and went off in a rage. Would he have been healed if he didn’t go to the Jordan and dip himself seven times as he was instructed? Was it the water that healed him? Or was it faith, accompanied by obedience that healed him. It was his faith that the prophet could heal him and his obedience to go into the water that healed him. It is the same with baptism. Does the water save you? Or is it the faith accompanied by obedience that saves you? It is the faith that Jesus is the Son of God and obedience to the command to be baptized that saves you. Without faith your just getting wet; without obedience you are disobeying God. As John states “We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says I know him but does not do what he commands is a liar and the truth is not in him.” 1 John 2:3-4 Or as Paul states in Col. 2:12-“Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead.” Rom. 6 is the potrayal of what happens to the person at baptism. That is why he address the Christians, Don’t you know? Of course they do, baptism was a given back then. Kin |
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7 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 27547 | ||
I would agree that faith accompanied (or evidenced) by obedience saves you. The proper act of obedience for salvation is given in Rom 10:9-10 (believe and confess). Baptism has no part of justification. Steve |
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