Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 16960 | ||
Hey Tim, Great points made. I tend to agree with you that our salvation produces good works and that works cannot save us. I also agree that there is a point in our life when we cross over from life to death, not a “growing into”. As Peter states “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.” There are clearly two options: being a people, not being a people; receiving mercy, not receiving mercy. Light and darkness. Paul makes it clear when this process takes place. Rom. 6:1-9 “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, [1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him “. Paul states that we live “a new life”. He gives us insight into what actually is taking place in our conversion. I don’t think you would argue this point with me. There is a point where one needs to make a decision. Some say “accept Christ into your heart”. My belief is to make the decision to obey the command to “repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins”(Acts 2:38) That is the place where I believe “obeying the commands” comes into place and salvation is gained. From that point on we are compelled to obey the rest of the commands out gratitude for our salvation. So it is not obeying the commands that saves us but rather obeying initially THE command .But now the debatable part comes in. What is this baptism that we participate in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? Eph. 4: 4-6 tells us that there is only “one baptism”. I would say that this one baptism is not the outpouring of the spirit on the day of Pentecost. (That is a whole other topic we can discuss later.) When we study the book of Acts the baptisms we see are water baptism, with one or two exceptions (which can be part of the “Pentecost topic” I would like to discuss.) SOOO, my question is (and I think I wrote this before and you replied to it under the “unapprised children” topic) if baptism isn’t water baptism (which I obviously lean towards) then what is it and where are the scriptures to show it? P.S.- Read 2 Kings 5 and you will see that Naaman was cured of his leprosy because he obeyed God and dipped himself into the Jordan. Did the water actually cure him? I say that it did in the sense that if he didn’t obey God and go to the water he wouldn’t have been cured. There was a reason God wanted Naaman to go into the water, and I believe the same principle applies to our water baptism. The water it doesn’t save us but if we don’t obey the command of God we have failed to make THE decision to cross over from life to death. (And I add, that only by God giving us the opportunity through His Grace). I look forward to discussing this further, Kin |
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2 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 17009 | ||
You asked "if baptism isn’t water baptism (which I obviously lean towards) then what is it and where are the scriptures to show it?" Did you not read my post to you a few days ago that I gave to you to show that each time "baptism" is spoken of in Scripture that it is not always speaking of water baptism? I gave you 10 verses or so that speak of batism that can not be referring to water baptism. Is there ANY verses I gave that you think are referring to water baptism? I don't like reposting but I will repost the part I am referring to bacause I don't really think you saw it, as you are still asking for Scripture that speak of any baptism other than water. Repost: Eph 4:5 declares one baptism as you have quoted. However, Heb 6:2 says the doctrine of BAPTISMS not baptism, right? Look at Mat3:11b, Mat20:22-23, Mar1:8b, Mar10:38-39, Luk3:16b, Luk12:50, Acts1:5b, and Acts11:16b. Can we agree that none of these references mean water baptism? So, can we agree that the Word declares more than 1 baptism, as far as number goes? So, what does "one baptism" mean in Eph 4:5? Since the Word declares more than one baptism, as far as number, the "one" here must mean the one baptism that brings salvation. Not the baptism into the body of Christ PLUS water baptism, but baptism into the body of Christ ALONE (1Cor12:13). Jesus Saves! retxar |
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3 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 17856 | ||
I. THERE IS ONE BAPTISM A. THE BIBLE DOES DESCRIBE MANY BAPTISMS... 1. At the very least there are six... a. The baptism of Moses (Israel) - 1 Co 10:1-2 b. The baptism of John, a baptism in water - Mk 1:4-5 c. The baptism of the Holy Spirit - Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16; Ac 1:5 2:1-4; 10:44,45; 11:15-16 f. The baptism of fire (judgment) - Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16,17 d. The baptism of suffering (persecution) - Mt 20:20-33; Lk 12:50 e. The baptism of the Great Commission, which was a baptism in water - Mt 28:19; Mk 16:15-16; Ac 2:38; 8:12-13,35-38;10:47-48; 22:16 2. Some include two more... a. The baptism of Noah, metaphorically speaking, which involved water - 1 Pe 3:20 b. The baptism of Jesus, which involved water and the Spirit - Mt 3:16-17 B. THERE IS NOW JUST ONE BAPTISM... 1. In describing the unity of the Spirit... a. Paul proclaims there is one baptism - Ep 4:3-7 b. Just as there is only one Lord, one faith, one hope, etc. 2. To which of the six (or eight) baptisms was Paul referring? a. I believe we can safely rule out all but two b. The issue boils down to this: Is the one baptism of Ep 4:5... 1) The baptism of the Holy Spirit? 2) The baptism of the Great Commission? -- Or might there actually be a connection between these two, with the end result there being one baptism with two elements, water and the Spirit? [Whichever, we cannot have two or more baptisms; there is only one baptism! Now let me explain why regarding the one baptism...] II. IT IS THE BAPTISM OF THE GREAT COMMISSION A. WHY THE BAPTISM OF THE GREAT COMMISSION? 1. This is the baptism... a. Commanded by Jesus 1) For people of all nations - Mk 28:19 2) For every person in the world - Mk 16:15-16 b. Commanded by the apostles in response to the gospel 1) As proclaimed to the Jews at Pentecost - Ac 2:38 2) As commanded by Peter to the Gentiles - Ac 10:48 -- Indeed, every example of conversion described in detail in the book of Acts involves this baptism! 2. If there is only one baptism... a. It must involve this one, for it is commanded of all who would come to Christ! b. Otherwise we must throw it out (as some have done) B. WHAT ABOUT THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT? 1. This is a difficult subject, about which the Bible actually says very little... a. John promised that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit - Mt 3:11 b. Jesus promised that He would baptize with the Holy Spirit - Ac 1:5 c. But the baptism of the Holy Spirit is then explicitly mentioned in just three places 1. At the conversion of Cornelius - Ac 10:44-45; 11:15-16 a. Which reminded Peter of Pentecost - Ac 11:15-16; 2:1-4 2. This has led to much confusion about what the baptism of the Spirit is... a. Some say that it was an event that occurred only twice 1) On the day of Pentecost, and only upon the apostles - Ac 2 2) At the conversion of Cornelius and his household, the first Gentiles - Ac 10,11 b. Some say it is an event that occurs at every conversion 1) When a person is saved, they are that moment "baptized" with the Holy Spirit 2) Occurs to all who become Christians, and no miraculous manifestations need be present c. Others say it is an event that occurs after conversion 1) A "second work of grace" that must be sought diligently 2) Many people understand "speaking in tongues" to be a sign of this "baptism of the Holy Spirit" 3) Some even say that it is necessary to be truly saved 3. I am persuaded the baptism of the Holy Spirit... a. Refers to the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost - Ac 2:1-21 b. Was a one-time event, but with ramifications lasting throughout the gospel age 1) In which the Holy Spirit is now available in some way to all whom God calls through the gospel - 2 Th 2:13-14; Tit 3:7 2) For those who receive the Spirit, the Spirit then empowers whom He wills to the degree He wills - 1 Co 12:4-13 a) For the servants of God used in the revelation and confirmation of His Word, the Spirit imparted "spiritual gifts" (this work of the Spirit was temporary, and ended once God's revelation was completed) b) For all of the servants of God, the Spirit serves as the "instrumental agent" by which God strengthens and blesses them (this work of the Spirit continues today, and will until Christ returns) (see cont.) |
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4 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 17857 | ||
CONT..... -- This view presumes that one receives the Spirit at baptism(see below) - Ac 2:38-39; 1 Co 12:13; Ti 3:5-7 4. So while at first there may be have been two baptisms spoken of by Jesus... a. The baptism of the Great Commission - Mt 28:19; Mk 16:15-16 b. The baptism of the Spirit - Ac 1:5 ...once the Spirit was poured out, only "one baptism" remained, which was that baptism commanded of people in every nation! [Having declared the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" a promise that was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost,let me emphasize concerning the "baptism of the Great Commission"...] III. IT INVOLVES BOTH WATER AND THE SPIRIT A. THAT IT INVOLVES WATER... 1. Is evidenced by conversion of the Ethiopian - Ac 8:35-38 2. Is made clearer by the command of Peter - Ac 10:47-48 3. Is alluded to by Paul and Peter in their epistles - Ep 5:26; 1 Pe 3:20-21 B. THAT IT INVOLVES THE SPIRIT... 1. Is indicated when Jesus declared that one must be "born again"- Jn 3:3-5 a. To be born "of water and the Spirit" b. Not two births, but one birth with two elements (water and Spirit) 2.Is made clearer when Paul wrote to Titus - Ti 3:5-6 a. God saved us "through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" b. That washing (a clear allusion to baptism) involved a regeneration and renewing of the Spirit! 3. Is seen in Paul's remarks to the Corinthians - 1 Co 12:13 a. By the Spirit were we baptized into the one body b. In baptism, the Spirit not only regenerates, but incorporates us into the body of Christ! [The baptism of the Great Commission is more than just an immersion in water. At the moment the penitent believer is lowered into the water the Spirit is very much at work in renewing, regenerating, and incorporating us into the Body of Christ. In other words...] (see cont.) |
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5 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 17858 | ||
CONT.... IV. IT HAS SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE A. IT INVOLVES A BURIAL INTO THE DEATH OF CHRIST... 1. As Paul explains in Ro 6:3-7 a. Baptism into Christ is a burial into His death b. In baptism we are crucified with Christ c. In baptism we thus die to sin, and rise to walk in newness of life 2. Some contend Paul is teaching what water baptism symbolizes... a. That it pictures what took place when we were saved before baptism b. That it depicts the Spirit baptism which occurred at the moment of faith-- But if so, then we have two baptisms, and Paul taught there was only one! 3. Others say Paul is describing Spirit baptism... a. That water baptism (i.e., the baptism of the Great Commission) is not even under consideration b. That this passage is depicting what happens before water baptism-- Again, we would have two baptisms, not one! 4. This passage describes what happens when a person is baptized into Christ... a. Since there is only one baptism, it must be referring to that baptism b. Since the one baptism is the baptism of the Great Commission, Paul is describing the spiritual significance of what takes place when one is baptized in water! B. THERE ARE OTHER THINGS OF SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE... 1. The one baptism (of the Great Commission) involves... a. A cutting away of sin - Co 2:11-13 b. A putting on of Christ - Ga 3:27 2. Again, some contend these passages are describing... a. "Spirit baptism" at the point of faith b. Not the baptism of the Great Commission -- But this makes two baptisms, when there is only one! 3. Since the baptism of the Great Commission involves both water and the Spirit... a. There is no reason God (i.e., the Spirit) could not be at work when a person is immersed in water b. God has chosen to use baptism in water to be the point in time in which His Spirit does His work of regeneration and renewal! - Ti 3:5; Ac 22:16 CONCLUSION 1. Some people want to "have their cake and eat it too"... a. They want to say passages like Ro 6:3-7; Ga 3:27; Co 2:11-13 are describing "Spirit baptism", not "water baptism" b. But then appeal to these passages when they seek to describe "water baptism" as symbolic of "Spirit baptism" which has already occurred 2. Note well: If these passages are not discussing "water baptism" (i.e., the baptism of the Great Commission)... a. We have no Scripture that tells us what is the true significance and meaning of the baptism commanded by Christ and His apostles! b. The Lord has commanded water baptism, with no explanation as to what it means! -- Any explanation as to the meaning and purpose of the baptism of the Great Commission is pure conjecture and without any scriptural basis! 3. The "unity of the Spirit" proclaims there is only one baptism... a. Not two baptisms, one of the Spirit at the time of salvation, and one later for some unexplained reason b. But one baptism, involving both water and the Spirit, in response to the preaching of Christ and His apostles 4. This one baptism... a. Is a rebirth involving both water and the Spirit Jn 3:5 b. Is for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit - Ac 2:38; 22:16 c. Is a baptism in water - Ac 8:35-38; 10:47-48 d. Involves the Spirit incorporating us into the body of Christ - 1 Co 12:13 e. Is a burial into the death of Christ in which we are crucified with Him - Ro 6:3-7 f. Clothes us with Christ - Ga 3:27 e. Is a spiritual circumcision, in which our sins are cut away - Co 2:11-13 f. Is a washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, who was poured out as promised by Jesus - Ti 3:5-7; Ac 1:5; 2:1-4 g. Saves us, not through some physical cleansing, but by the resurrection of Jesus! - 1 Pe 3:21 Should we be surprised that the Great Commission of our Lord contains a great command having great significance? "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Mt 28:19-20) And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." (Mk 16:15-16) 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.' (Ac 22:16) |
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6 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 17889 | ||
I don't know if I agree with all that you said, but my hat is sure off to you for all the leg work and study you must have done, good job! CDBJ | ||||||
7 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 18033 | ||
Thank you CDBJ, but I can't take credit for someone else's hard work. I found it online at www.bible.ca/bible.htm You should check it out, it's got a lot of great studies on just about everything! Kin |
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8 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 18041 | ||
I have done that in part at times but I wonder if anyone knows what the law is regarding copyright infringement? Sometimes I wonder if we are allowed to use some of the information that forward on; that's all that we need to mess up our testimony? Help anyone, CDBJ | ||||||
9 | Unbaptized children | Bible general Archive 1 | kin | 18243 | ||
Hey CDBJ, Thank you for your concern in the matter of copyright infringement. The site I was talking about gives permission to copy. Check it out! It's a wealth of information. Kin |
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