Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 84819 | ||
Mathew There is simply no validity to your claim. Chapter 4 verse 1-5 is a warning that one day (which now is) false teachers will come into the picture and will try to make false rules such as abstaining from marriage and forbidding of eating of some foods. Verse 2 show these false teachers to be lying hypocritical leaders. Verse 1-3 show they have abandoned the faith heeded lying spirits and forbid marriage and eating of certain foods. Verses 4-5 shows why they are wrong. Verses 6-16 of chapter 4 teaches of the do's and don't of Christian Ministry. Don't waste time arguing over foolish ideas and myths. Don't let yourself be intimidated by people that claim more spiritual wisdom because of age. Don't neglect the spiritual gifts. Do warn the church of apostasy and false teaching, Keep spiritually fit. Be a good role model. Preach and teach the word publicly. Give yourself completely to the ministry God sits before you. Keep a close check on you own life. As to Cannibalism, do you really think "...from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;" opens the door to cannibalism? I don’t think it does anymore than it supports eating arsenic or glass. So let’s not go there. EdB |
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2 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | Mathew | 84826 | ||
EdB, I totaly agree with you. I was incorrect with my last post. I was thinking of the sheet that came down from heaven in a vision. This is what i was refurring to. I lost track of were I was with this subject. My appologies. However, concerning 1Timothy chapter 4. . Apparently some specific end-time group is described that forbids marriage, it is full of hypocrisy, and is seduced by evil spirits. In addition, this group commands its followers to abstain from obviously clean foods, "which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." My purpose here is not to dwell on the identity of these evil perverters of the gospel, but to see IF the idea that merely praying over food can make it good to eat. Becuse I see alot of people use this verse to call unclean and abominable foods clean. Paul shows that any created thing in the food line is acceptable as long as it meets TWO tests-it must be APPROVED (or sanctified) by the Bible, and it should be prayed over with thanksgiving. Please take note that both of these requirements MUST be met in order for the food to be suitable for the Christian diet. Incidentally, the word "meats" in the original language is not limited to flesh foods. The Greek word "broma" simply means "food." Should I take these verses to suggest that rats, bats, and swine may be sanctified for food by simply praying over them? Quite the opposite! Nothing is made suitable unless it has passed the FIRST TEST of being approved by the Word of God. If the Bible says it is clean, then and only then can prayers of thanksgiving be assured the seal of God's acceptance. So I do agree with receiving every creature of God with thanksgiving, as long as it has been APPROVED(sanctified)by the WORD of GOD first and then Prayer. I have a question about this text :"And commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." I see that God was talking about the creatures he had already DECLARED to be received as FOOD. Does 1Timothy chapter 4 give evidence that God SANCTIFIED unclean foods? And I only brought the cannibalism thing up because we to are Gods creatures, But were never DECLARED and SANCTIFIED to be eaten and received with thanksgiving. Matt |
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3 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 84871 | ||
Mathew Your approved food was only for the Jews to set them apart from the Gentiles. We no longer live under Jewish law Jesus set us free. Mark 7:15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. If food is received with thanksgiving and we ask God to bless and sanctify it to our good I believe we can eat it. Would I eat rat or bat no, but if I did it would have no effect on my salvation. Mathew your letting yourself be put under the Levitical dietary laws that do not pertain to you only to Jews. If you don't want to eat something don't, but don't base your salvation or the closeness of your walk with God on it. That was the mistake the Pharisees made. EdB |
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4 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | Mathew | 84879 | ||
EdB, I appreciate your last post. I understand your concern on this subject. I can see how a person would think that they are closer to God because they beleive that their convictions are higher than anothers. My personal convictions on this matter of unclean foods is no more based on my salvation than any of the rest of Gods commandments that he told us to keep. I probably eat pork and many other unclean things everyday without even knowing it. I'm not trying to compare myself to anybody else but God. And when I do, I see how much I need him because no matter how hard I try, I'll still be a sinner. My reason for bringing up this subject is not for condemnation on myself, or anybody else. I just wanna see what others know about this subject. Maybe I can learn something new. Mark 7:15-19 is the same parrable that he gives in Matthew 15:15 and I gave my explanaton on this already under this thread; Subject:cannot eat pork or seafood- (Hi Steve let me point out)If you check it out I could get your responce to this. Matt |
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5 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 84913 | ||
Mathew Again your relating everything to the Jewish laws of separation. God called his people to be different, therefore he gave them laws which would make them different. If for instance swine wasn't considered food why would God even need to prohibit it? Evidently swine was a common food at the time and God then put it on the Jewish prohibition list. Exactly why we do not know though many foolishly speculate on the reason. Now we come to Mark 7. You say Mark recording Jesus' words only meant acceptable food or things considered food and since swine was on the prohibition list it wasn't considered. I think not. The Jews lived surrounded by gentiles who raised hogs for food. We see Jesus cast the demons in to a herd of swine. Everyone considered swine food and just the Jews refrained from eating it. When Mark is talking here if his intent was to talk only about what Jews ate or to eliminate swine and such he would have to said the food Moses okayed us to eat, or the lawful food or something to that extent. But the passage says food and we need to take it as literally not trying to put and conditions on it. Remember one more point the Leviticial dietary laws went a step further and set conditions on the okay food. It is known as Kosher. It dictates how food is to be killed, how it is to handled, stored, etc. For instance dairy and meat products can not come into contact with each other. All animals must be killed by having their jugular vein cut with a very sharp blade thus feeling little or no pain. All animals must be inspected and any deformity, injury or birth defect eliminates that animal from being considered eatable. In North Eastern Pennsylvania Jewish Rabbi from NY City take turns inspecting the chickens. They kill each and every one (with scary sharp blades) and inspect the chicken if they reject a chicken it goes into the “gentile” line. By your standard they are no longer for food talked about in Mark 7 and I say this hold no validity. No Jew would consider eating a cheese burger since dairy and meat touch however I don’t think any would say it is not food. They just called it prohibited, unclean or nonkosher food. EdB |
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6 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | Mathew | 85232 | ||
EdB, Thanks alot for breaking it down for me. I learned alot from that last post. I don't beleive that things like rounding the corners of your hair, not shaving your beard, and only eating Kosher foods are to be upheld according to scripture. I do eat cheesburgers...lol I do think that God has called us to seperate ourselves from the world though, and to dress modestly. I think christians should be modern day John the Baptist preparing the way for Christ. I'm still a little confused though. Because you relate certain eating requirements for the Jews only. In Genesis 1:29, it says "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." God only allowed us to eat meat after he flooded the earth because there would not be any vegatation. - but only certain meats. God gave this instruction to Noah: "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2. The law of clean and unclean animals extends all the way back to the beginning of human history. Many have assumed that only the Jewish people were forbidden to eat the unclean animals. Not so. There were no Jews in Noah's day, yet the distinction is clearly made. Since it is evident that even some Genesis-kind animals were unclean, how do we determine where the line is drawn between the clean and unclean? In Leviticus 11:3-11 the requirements are clearly laid out. Just because some people ate swine from Genesis to now doesn't make it clean. You stated that "If for instance swine wasn't considered food why would God even need to prohibit it?" My answer is that God can only give us guidance. People were probably eating swine and many other things in ignorance and disobediance from then to even now perhaps. I'm not saying I'm correct on this subject. I just need that Noah question answered, seeing that he represented all mankind. And explain Isaiah 66:15-17 to me on how even at the end of time the probation of man, God still doesnt see these abominable things clean. When did the abominable become clean? Because if God called them all clean then doesn't this counterdict Isaiah 66:15-17 were he still sees them as unclean. Matt |
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7 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 85257 | ||
Mathew Once again your making the Bible say something it doesn't say. Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. God is speaking to Noah here and told Noah he could eat everything there is no prohibition on clean or unclean at his point. As for the clean and unclean animals that were loaded into the ark, there is no mention of which animals were considered unclean. Were they unclean for food or for sacrifice? Again we do not know. I made the comment about prohibiting swine as food as you said a passage only was talking about food and swine wasn’t considered food, I was showing where that line of thought was incorrect. Remember Jesus did not destroy the law he fulfilled it. Those refuse to accept Jesus and remain under the Old Covenant they can’t eat swine, but those that are under the New Covenant can. God didn’t change, He made a New Covenant. In the First Covenant a person’s righteousness demanded him to keep the law which we know to be impossible under the New Covenant our righteousness is imparted to us through Jesus. EdB |
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8 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | Mathew | 85367 | ||
EdB, Very, very good thoughts on that last post. Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." You stated that "God is speaking to Noah here and told Noah he could eat everything there is no prohibition on clean or unclean at this point." If we go back a little: Gen 6:20 "Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to "keep them alive". Gen 6:21 "As for you, take for yourself some of all food which is EDIBLE, and gather it to yourself; and it shall be for food for you and for them." My question is if there is no prohibition for Noah, then why does he mention of the food which is edible? We can't assume that unclean animals were to be taken for food or their species would be extinct. You also suggested that maybe the unclean animals on the ark were only unclean for sacrifice, and not for food. But if that species was unclean there would only be two of its kind. If It was meant for food, but not to be sacrificed it would still be extinct. So I would guess from the compiled scriptures so far, that they were unclean for food, and sacrifice. If you eat them or sacrifice them, their still extinct. Could you please if you have time, give me your thought on these verses? If certain animals were identified as unclean before the flood; if they were still counted as unclean when Peter rejected them in his vision; if they are still called unclean in Revelation 18:2, where it speaks of "unclean" birds; and if Isaiah declares that all who are eating swine and the abomination at the time of the second advent will be consumed (Isaiah 66:15-17), how can we feel that they are now fit to eat? When did they become clean? If nothing else please explain Isaiah 66:15-17, because here is were I tend to second guess unclean foods being called clean. Thank You, Matt |
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9 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 85428 | ||
Mathew First we have no idea what Noah and the rest of the ark ate. Evidently Noah had stockpiled food whether it was grain, cut and dried meat or the extra animals for freshly killed meat we do not know. However this we do know God told Noah to put on the ark 2 of each kind and of the clean God told Noah to bring more aboard. We assume it was for food. We also presume to know what was clean and what was unclean. However assumptions can be very wrong and can/should not be used to prove this point. As I said before Noah may very well have had a separate food storage and the extra animals were there only or sacrifice or to give that breed better or accelerated reproductive power. Besides we have no idea what was considered clean and unclean at this time. There are too many unknowns and we really can’t prove anything here. So let’s not dwell here any longer. Isaiah 66:17 is a Jewish prophet and is using hyperbole, God is talking about people that are purifying themselves to worship idols. He is contrasting two things the purification rite which to the Jew was very holy and swine which again to the Jews was very unholy. God through Isaiah makes this comparison to show how people will convolute things. God through Isaiah is saying in the “last days” people will have things backwards. We see this today, the cross once representing Christianity has become something that shows your “out” there, men and women set apart to serve God are committing all kinds of despicable acts, Christians having higher divorce rates than the general public. Abortion once was viewed as murder now it is viewed a woman’s choice. Human life was precious now baby whales are more important. The list goes on. To use this verse to establish dietary laws is forcing the issue. Remember while the Jew were forbidden to eat swine by God, God never told the rest of creation not to eat swine. Peter and John's reference to unclean is in the perspective of a Jew. Unclean to them was a known class of animals given to them in the Levitical Laws and was used for simplicity rather than naming each type of creature . However Levitical Laws were given to the Israel not everyone. If you were born a Jew or wanted to become a Jew you would be expected to live by those standards even today. However as Christians we are not to try to follow the laws that separated the children of Israel from the rest of the world, we are to follow the New Covenant. In the New Covenant 1 Tim. 4:3-5 says all of creation is now to be considered clean. Once again I remind you of Romans 14:14, "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean." I say to you if you think it is unclean then to you it is, however going back to 1 Tim 4:3-5 don’t let someone impose their standard on you and don’t you try to impose your standard on anyone. Let’s not get things backwards ourselves, what we eat has very little importance, what is really important is our salvation and how we live Jesus before the rest of the world. Be blessed my friend EdB |
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10 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | Mathew | 85434 | ||
EdB, Nice to hear from you again. Let me start out by saying that I do understand that the kingdom of God is not meat and drink. Eating standards are not the issue with me. Im not affended but what others eat at all. I'm simply trying to figure out why there seems to be a double standard. For instance you said that Isaiah 66:17 is a Jewish prophet and is using "hyperbole", God is talking about people that are purifying themselves to "worship idols". In other words I shouldn't take this text literraly. For instance you bring up Romans 14:14. consider that in verse 2 of this chapter Paul says the weak ones are eating only "vegetables". If this problem concerned the unclean-meat regulations of Leviticus 11, there would have been plenty of clean meats that could have been had in a city the size of Rome. Additionally, in verse 17 "drink" is mentioned and in verse 21 wine. So the problems at hand did not have to do with just food and eating, but with wine and drinking. But there were no general regulations concerning wine or drinking in the "Torah". On this point, then, the weak members' concerns could not have stemmed from Old Testament unclean-meat regulations or common Jewish customs. The possibility that the subject here is conscience problems in eating "foods offered to idols" is the only clear interpretation. If the problem in Rome were "food offered to idols", then vegetarianism would not have been an inappropriate response, for all the meat available would have been "tainted," which only vegetarianism could have fully resolved for the conscience-stricken. Also, in Rome wine was offered to the gods just as meat was, which makes this the only possibility that really fits verses 17 and 21. We know conscience concerns regarding foods offered to idols was by no means a remote possibility, for Paul had to deal with this same matter in another gentile city (1 Corinthians 8). So it is far from certain that the food concern stemmed from Jewish scruples regarding the eating of unclean animals. For all we know, it may not have involved Jewish scruples about anything; it could well have been a gentile conscience issue of meat and wine offered to idols that Roman gentiles, as their Corinthian brethren, may have felt. But yet christians will use this verse of Romans 14:14 to say that Paul was calling the unclean clean. Rather I say he was talking concerning foods offered to idols. Why the double standard? A new friend in Christ, Matt |
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11 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | EdB | 85442 | ||
Mathew The verse in Isaiah can be taken literally about how people will convolute holiness not literally to establish dietary prohibitions. As for your argument about Romans the lesson there is not what is clean or unclean but allowing our conscience and leading the Holy Spirit to lead us not what others say. I brought it up to you in hopes it would give you liberty from what others have taught you. Let’s go back to Leviticus 11:7 “ and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you.” Who is God speaking to? The Jew, God said I do not want you the children of Israel to eat swine to YOU it is unclean. Are you Jewish? If not then it isn’t unclean to you. Once more the Old Covenant was a covenant made between God and the Children of Israel (the Jews) other people served God and didn’t live under those restrictions. Under the Old Covenant swine was unclean under the new it is not. Why? I have no idea, possibly to show us how much more powerful the New Covenant is. Jesus being the basis and guarantor of New Covenant even sanctifies the food which we eat therefore setting us free from yet another restriction. Now you can push I Tim 4:3-5 all over the road, but the fact remains that here God is clearly plainly stating all that He has created is clean and can be eating for food if received with thanksgiving asking God’s bless upon it. I think we have examined this subject about as much as we can. If you feel by God telling the Jew not to eat pork and then okaying the eating of pork in the New Testament God is changing. I think it because your reading more in what God said about pork that what He said. God made it a prohibition to the Jew, not to the world, to set the Jew apart from the world. Gentiles still ate pork. In the New Testament that included Gentiles, God did not set down any dietary prohibitions. The council of Jerusalem realize this in Acts 15 and they again did not set down any. I think many see pork as inferior to other meats and therefore read into God prohibition things God simply did not say. Many say we shouldn’t eat pork because hogs eat garbage, pigs eat what is given them to exist on. If you give them sweet corn they will eat it. A cow if only given garbage will eat that. In fact the problem with mad cow disease was because in England they feed cattle sick cows that had died. To me from being around hogs, cows and chickens I find chickens far dirtier than any pig ever hoped to be. Chickens will eat anything even when they are not hungry and will eat another chicken while it is still alive. Be Blessed my friend EdB |
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