Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208181 | ||
Greetings Imm, Ah, it looks as if you have worked your way through this also :-) These are the type discussions I love to see! Lot's of good thoughts and questions by all who have attempted to work through this. I love it! First, let me address the beginning assumption. I'm not clear on what you are trying to say here. I will say this, I personally don't see any reason to assume anything. After all, that is what usually leads us astray from the text in the first place. What we do know is that God commanded Adam, and according to the written word, Eve said that God said etc... So, I'm afraid I don't see the need to assume what they might have thought on the matter. What is clear is that they were disobedient to what God had said. Perhaps I misunderstand your first comments??? Your comment... "It sounds to me as though she was in transgression before eating, she picked it, at that point she didn't die, she had just told the serpent, God said don't touch it! Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." If in fact God told her as she stated in 3:3, then it would seem to me she would be in transgression before eating. Your comment... "This scripture might be stretching the point, but she was now looking at the tree with desire, and curiosity can it be applied in different situations? Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." This would seem to attribute a fallen nature to Eve before she had disobeyed so it doesn't seem applicable to me. Your comment... "I believe Satan went to Eve, as the weaker vessel, knowing he stood a better chance, than with Adam. Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." Can we actually apply this passage to this? Would it be true if we are dealing with lust in the heart of Eve then she was fallen even before satan appeared? Same as above, it seems to attribute a fallen nature to Eve before the transgression. Your thoughts? And thinks for the post! It's interesting working through this and the differing views and thoughts are good to work through. I've always found the first three chapters of the word interesting and I love trying to understand it all! Steve |
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2 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Immanuelsown | 208244 | ||
Humbled, OK, No Assumptions. These are the questions I have asked myself, in an attempt to get an understanding of who Eve was, and what was her motivation, we can't blame it all on Satan, he did lie to her, everything else was Eve's own doing. 1) How long were Adam, and Eve in the garden, after God gave the command, not to eat the fruit, until Eve was tempted? 2) Why did they not eat of the fruit before that time? 3) What was it, at that particular moment, that made Eve even consider eating of the tree, when she had not before? 4) Just how much different were Adam, and Eve than we are? 5) If they were created perfect, would it have been necessary, for God's command to them? The reason I used the verse, Matt.5:28 was because, according to the words in Gen.3:6 there are attributed to Eve, the same types of thoughts a person after the fall could have. So is this a natural condition, of the heart of Man? If it has always been the condition of the heart of Man, and not the (Fallen Nature) could it then be said, Eve looked on the Tree to lust after the fruit? In lusting after the fruit, then Jas.1:14 then explains Eve's actions. If so, Eve had committed sin already in her heart, before (Touching, or Eating). Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Gen.3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be (desired) to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Jas.1:14,15 14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." 15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. H2530----DESIRED chamad khaw-mad A primitive root; to delight in: - beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing). (Strong's Concordance) My belief in this matter is, the heart of man has not changed, otherwise Eve could not have been tempted. God would not have had to put the Death Penalty on the eating of the fruit. The eating of the fruit, gave us the knowledge of good, and evil. But as we see, it wasn't eating the fruit, that brought sin into the world, it was because of LUST. In looking at this question, I have had to look at my own belief, that Adam, and Eve were created perfect. The following verse explains, being created in the Image, and Likeness of God, we were given dominion over the Earth. Having dominion, also entails having a Free Will, Eve Exercised that Free Will. Gen.1:26 26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. In Him Imm |
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3 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Hank | 208245 | ||
Immanuelsown: Looking over the battery of questions you've posed to Humbled, I don't see how they can be answered without delving into speculation. Do you? I lay no claim whatever to any expertise on matters involving High Theology or anything of the kind, so I'm fairly well limited when it comes to trying to connect the dots. And that is good! It forces me to attempt to speak only where the Bible speaks and to keep my mouth shut where the Bible is silent. I have enough trouble learning and digesting what the Bible clearly reveals, and so it leaves me no time to speculate and ruminate on the those things which our loving and all-wise Father chose not to elaborate. God's eternal and unchanging word will be around long after I'm gone. Few indeed are they who care about my opinions now and fewer still will remember them after I've gone. So my candid view about questions such as you've asked is this: If God did not choose to reveal these details, is it our business to worry very much about them? I really don't believe that God expects us to fill in the blanks ourselves nor needs man to take over where He left off, do you? I'd feel more comfortable about this thread if it were dropped here and now, without further ado. ..... Just how important is it to know about things such as Eve's "motivation" and how much time elapsed between the time God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit and the time Eve was tempted? The narrative of Adam and Eve has endured and imparted the message it was intented to impart for centuries as it is, without being gussied up with all these minute frills and details. Let's be content to learn from it all that it clearly reveals without tarnishing the sacred record by adding our worthless speculation and groundless guesses. --Hank | ||||||
4 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208251 | ||
Amen, and amen brother Hank! Sir, would you mind very much, if I quoted you on this? There are a few dear brothers and sisters that I know out here, that could use a good dose of this kind of good old common sense, which is, as you know, not so common.... A side note; on "being remembered after we're gone". Upon retiring as a long time school administrator, and lofty position of 'District Director of Schools' while he was thinking and reflecting that, he would be well missed: This friend of mine, was told by his wise old father in law, --"If you put your elbow in a bucket of water, then quickly, pull it out...... the time it takes to fill the hole in the water, that was left by the absence of your elbow, will be about how long it will take to fill your shoe's in your position in school administration."-- :-) God bless you, dear brother Hank! John |
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5 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Hank | 208267 | ||
Dear John :: It surprises me that anthing I've said on these pages over the years would be considered quotable. But to your question of whether I'd mind your quoting my words to others, the answer is no, sir, I have no objection. Grace to you, John. --Hank | ||||||
6 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | DocTrinsograce | 208268 | ||
"...anything I've said on these pages over the years would be considered quotable." --Hank (2008) How about partial quotations without the context? :-) |
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7 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208270 | ||
Don't worry Doc, anything I say is usually without context and pretty garbled anyway! Brother Hank has nothing to worry about as far as it being attributed to him, everyone will assume I'm just blabbing my usual drivel.... :-) | ||||||