Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Lionstrong | 208196 | ||
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. All babies born after the fall are not innocent. We are born sinners, made that way by the fall of Adam. This is not true of Eve. She was not proud. She was tricked. Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." 1 Tim 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. According to God, her sin was not pride, but it was doing what God had expressly forbidden her to do. Gen 3:11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" The Scriptures may not answer all the questions but the Fall cannot be attributed to any moral flaw in man as he was created by God. The Sciptures say that Eve transgressed the command because she was tricked, not because she was proud. The Scriptures teaches that Mankind were made sinners through one man's disobedience. Therefore, Eve was not a sinner. In other words, we, born after the Fall and because of it, sin because we are sinners. This is not true of Adam and Eve. They BECAME sinners WHEN they sinned, not before they sinned. |
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2 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208198 | ||
Hi Lyonstrong; I never said they or she was a sinner before the fall; but I don't think you can definitely say it was not in her nature to do so wether it was a trick or wether it was pride or both, or she would not have done it. And I repeat, if I may, God knew she would! I don't really see any reason to argue the point. I find it a very typical answer tough, that a child, or anyone for that matter, when confronted with a misdeed would say, she was tricked and transfer the blame to someone els. Just because scripture says that she "said" that she was tricked, does not necessarily mean that that was the "only" reason; I personally believe we cant really know for sure; it's just my opinion, I'm not pushing any doctrine, and you have a right to your opinion as well :-) Shalom and God bless John |
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3 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 208294 | ||
1 Tim 2:14 says clearly that Eve was deceived, i.e. she was tricked. To blame her disobedience as an act due to being tricked would be true, although it does not exonerate her. As such, with the bare information as we have it, Eve's sin cannot be attributed any flaw, sinful or otherwise, in her character but only to her deed; it was the act that brought her ruin. I think the same would go for Adam (cf. Rom 5:12-17). As such, I do not think one can contend that it was in her nature to disobey God, that is, to sin. It was in her nature to make choices. Finally, that God knew she would transgress did not make its occurrence necessary or inevitable. |
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4 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208304 | ||
Dear Lookn... You say; "I do not think one can contend that it was in her nature to disobey God, that is, to sin. It was in her nature to make choices." Well. in that case; she chose to disobey God. That is a sin. You also say; "Finally, that God knew she would transgress did not make its occurrence necessary or inevitable." So you agree that she transgressed? Easton's Bible Dictionary Sin is, "any want of conformity unto or [transgression] of the law of God" -- [brackets] are mine for emphasis God said not to do it, that makes it a law of God, that makes doing it, a sin. Not necessary, or inevitable? I doubt very much that anyone can successfully contend that it was not part of God's plan. The good news is, of course; God has made a way for us to get out of the mire and bondage of sin, and live! John 3:16 And now I leave you with this 'edited' message from Hank, (Thanks Hank!) which is a mirror of my own thoughts on this subject. Shalom and God bless John “I lay no claim whatever to any expertise on matters involving High Theology or anything of the kind, so I'm fairly well limited when it comes to trying to connect the dots. And that is good! It forces me to attempt to speak only where the Bible speaks and to keep my mouth shut where the Bible is silent. I have enough trouble learning and digesting what the Bible clearly reveals, and so it leaves me no time to speculate and ruminate on the things which our loving and all-wise Father chose not to elaborate. God's eternal and unchanging word will be around long after I'm gone. Few indeed are they who care about my opinions now and fewer still will remember them after I've gone. So my candid view about questions such as call for speculations is this: If God did not choose to reveal details, is it our business to worry very much about them? I really don't believe that God expects us to fill in the blanks ourselves nor needs man to take over where He left off, do you? Just how important is it to know about such things? The narrative has endured and imparted the message it was intended to impart for centuries as it is, without being gussied up with all these minute frills and details. Let's be content to learn from it all that it clearly reveals without tarnishing the sacred record by adding our worthless speculation and groundless guesses.” –Hank |
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5 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 208307 | ||
StJohn, maybe my comment was not as clear as I thought. I was not contending against the proposition that Eve had transgressed. You did say she was not a sinner before the fall, therefore, I assume you believe she was created without a sinful nature or sinful propensities; that she was created either innocent or righteous. I was challenging your statement: "I don't think you can definitely say it was not in her nature to do so" (i.e. to sin). I contend that one can definitely say it was not in Eve's nature, as created, to sin: God saw his creation of Adam and Eve as good (not necessarily in moral terms but definitely not with any form of sin inherent in their natures). I argue it was in Eve's nature to choose, which included the choice to obey or disobey God's command; it was not in her nature to sin. There is a difference between being created to choose and being created to choose (especially in terms of necessity and inevitability) to sin. |
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6 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208312 | ||
nice try... | ||||||
7 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 208345 | ||
I'm glad we each can come to an understanding of our respective positions. | ||||||