Results 1 - 13 of 13
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208142 | ||
Dear Cheri, John and Azure, I was reading through the thread and thinking about all that was said and what the scriptures reveal to us on this matter. Eve's statement in Genesis 3:2-3 (NASB) "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' " Considering at this point we are not dealing with the fallen nature and Eve's words are "God has said", should our view of the matter be that God indeed had said "You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die" ? Certainly, if Eve spoke on behalf of God saying something that God had not said, not only would she be lying, but she also would be making God out to be a liar. Steve |
||||||
2 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | stjohn | 208152 | ||
Hi brother Steve: Good question; but we see that the serpent didn't refute her repeating of what she considered to be the gist of God's command, but responded with what is generally considered the first lie in scripture, and therefore makes satin the father of all lies, as Jesus calls him in, John 8:44, he is the source of all lying. when he said to her, "You will not surely die." and then strays further from truth by saying, "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." so I can't really see Eve as telling a lie. And though we do see God calling His creation "good" because of her pride in wanting to be more then God had made her to be, and so, to be more like Him, was indeed the temptation at hand. It, (Creation, and Eve being part of it) was not so perfect, as in the sense that we attribute perfection to God himself, so we would not necessarily consider Adam, or Eve, as being perfect, obviously, though they were not fallen yet, per-say, but it was indeed in their nature to succumb to temptation. Just my two cents. God bless John |
||||||
3 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208161 | ||
Brother John, You say "Good question; but we see that the serpent didn't refute her repeating of what she considered to be the gist of God's command" and you speak of her pride etc.. Given the text, is this not attributing to her a fallen nature prior to the fall? It seems that way to me and this is why I struggle with what seems to me to be much assumption attributed to this passage. However, I can understand because everyone looks back to the written account we have where God commands Adam. And perhaps that is actually the correct way to view this but I'm struggling lining that view up with the actual text. Steve |
||||||
4 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Immanuelsown | 208170 | ||
Humbledbyhisgrace, How about the possibility, of Satan just bringing to Eve's attention that the Tree was there. She knew what God had said about it. Can we assume then both her, and Adam just said OK, when he said don't eat of the fruit, and then promptly forgot about it, believing what God said was true? Gen 3:6 And when the woman (saw) that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. It sounds to me as though she was in transgression before eating, she picked it, at that point she didn't die, she had just told the serpent, God said don't touch it! Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. This scripture might be stretching the point, but she was now looking at the tree with desire, and curiosity can it be applied in different situations? Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. I believe Satan went to Eve, as the weaker vessel, knowing he stood a better chance, than with Adam. Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Could it be that simple? In Him Imm |
||||||
5 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208181 | ||
Greetings Imm, Ah, it looks as if you have worked your way through this also :-) These are the type discussions I love to see! Lot's of good thoughts and questions by all who have attempted to work through this. I love it! First, let me address the beginning assumption. I'm not clear on what you are trying to say here. I will say this, I personally don't see any reason to assume anything. After all, that is what usually leads us astray from the text in the first place. What we do know is that God commanded Adam, and according to the written word, Eve said that God said etc... So, I'm afraid I don't see the need to assume what they might have thought on the matter. What is clear is that they were disobedient to what God had said. Perhaps I misunderstand your first comments??? Your comment... "It sounds to me as though she was in transgression before eating, she picked it, at that point she didn't die, she had just told the serpent, God said don't touch it! Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." If in fact God told her as she stated in 3:3, then it would seem to me she would be in transgression before eating. Your comment... "This scripture might be stretching the point, but she was now looking at the tree with desire, and curiosity can it be applied in different situations? Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." This would seem to attribute a fallen nature to Eve before she had disobeyed so it doesn't seem applicable to me. Your comment... "I believe Satan went to Eve, as the weaker vessel, knowing he stood a better chance, than with Adam. Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." Can we actually apply this passage to this? Would it be true if we are dealing with lust in the heart of Eve then she was fallen even before satan appeared? Same as above, it seems to attribute a fallen nature to Eve before the transgression. Your thoughts? And thinks for the post! It's interesting working through this and the differing views and thoughts are good to work through. I've always found the first three chapters of the word interesting and I love trying to understand it all! Steve |
||||||
6 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | skccab | 208183 | ||
Shalom Steve and all y'all, I had no idea the original question would get so much attention but I'm glad it did. :-) I had mused on it all last night and just couldn't come up with a conclusion on my own. I thank everybody who has joined in the discussion, a lot of really good views to consider. Cheri |
||||||
7 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208184 | ||
Hi Cheri, Yes, I have enjoyed it also. I've always been intrigued by the first three chapters of the bible and find myself still trying to figure it all out! You ask the question and I'm getting the workout :-) Steve |
||||||
8 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | azurelaw | 208194 | ||
Dear Steve, I, too, enjoy it much. By the way, what has just come to mind, I was pondering about the tricky way that the serpent has distracted Eve's focus from her duty of obedience to the consequence. When the focus is on the consequence, could one be easily tempted to see if it is true? I am not referring this to Eve, but to believers when our faith is tested. Shalom Azure |
||||||
9 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208199 | ||
Hi Sister, Perhaps! It's an interesting question. Just thinking out loud, the first thing that crosses my mind is that if one was obedient out of love then I'm not sure one would be so focused on the consequence. But if one was obedient out of fear, then it would seem the consequence was certainly in view. As a Christian myself, I for one find both to be true :-) Now, that's just a quick thought on the question. Not sure how you would address that from scripture :-) This passage does come to mind. James 1:14-15 (NASB) 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. It would seem to me that the lust that entices us clouds the view of the consequence and there is a point it no longer is a concern to us so we sin despite the consequence. Steve |
||||||
10 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Immanuelsown | 208208 | ||
humbled, In the giving of the command to Adam, not to eat of the fruit, God set the stage, for sin to come into the world Is the Knowledge of Good, and Evil, the same as Sinning? It appears as though the command, gives you the right to choose. The right to choose, can bring Sin. But Sin, or Sinning, isn't the same as the knowledge of good, and evil So there arises a question, "did Adam, and Eve die, because of Sin, or from obtaining the knowledge?" Sin, and Death came into the world, then passed on to us, for the breaking of the Command. (LAW) Rom. 7:14 14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Everything having to do with the knowledge of good and evil is future, (Choice) The knowledge of Good, and Evil, opens up to mankind, all sorts of sins Jesus told us, Matt. 6:34 34) Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Jer. 27:9 9) Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: Rom. 7:8,9 8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Sin comes from the breaking of the Law, Jas. 1:13,14 13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. In Him Imm |
||||||
11 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | humbledbyhisgrace | 208218 | ||
Imm, Romans 6:16 (NASB) "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? " Romans 6:23 (NASB) "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Genesis 2:16-17 (NASB) 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Genesis 3:11 (NASB) "And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" Genesis 3:16-19 (NASB) 3:16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 3:18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; 3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." Steve |
||||||
12 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | Immanuelsown | 208230 | ||
humbled, Those are all really good scriptures, but without any explanation, as to what you are saying , they are just quotes of really good scriptures. They all speak truth, I can agree with every scripture you quoted, because they are the word of God, but as to the context in which you are using them, I am oblivious as to your application of each one. I'm not trying to be flippant, I'm saying that when I post a scripture, I try to put with it how I am interpreting it, applying it. I just don't know your thinking, or what you were trying to say with each one. At this point I don't know, if you agree with my post or not. Sorry:-( In Him Imm |
||||||
13 | Adam and Eve Perfect or Flawed | 1 Tim 2:11 | DocTrinsograce | 208231 | ||
Some scriptures aren't "really good?" | ||||||