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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 208012 | ||
Tim Moran You and perhaps others would not, but I would separate dying for Christ for the sake of saying "I am a Christian", from making sure someone else did not die for other reasons. What I keep seeing here is that a lot of folks are trying to take what I have been saying and to apply it accross the board to all Christian issues as if I am trying to make a new "normative" for all Christians to now follow, as that "it is all right to lie if the situation warrants it whatever situation that is". That is not something I am trying to do, make an new Christian normative. I am trying to say something about the concept of higher goods and lesser sins in an application "only to the saving of another human life in circumstances for which God is not supplying an alternative". The expamples I keep using are of David lying to his enemies and killing whole towns when he went to Ziklag, David and his men eating consecrated bread, Rahab lying to save the spies and by attrition all of Israel, the midwives in Exodus, Moses mother and father in Exodus - in all of these cases there were lies or sins of ommission or commission and it was withing God's plan A that these things were done, or else we are rewritting the Bible and what happened in it. As I keep on saying the Bible is strangely silent about these sins that were committed, or if you like these "good deeds" were committed in order to save lives. I never said that God never says sin is sin, I said He did allow it and therefore ordained it as part of His plan A, and that if we are to say that He did not ordain it, then we are saying that someone else has more power to affect, or effect something, and thereby would be more powerful than God, and that tramples on the sovereignty of God. I did not say in my post to Steve that Jesus condoned "sin" to save a life, I said that technically to exert oneself on the Sabbath is breaking it. Your statement that the Sabbath was created for man is true, Jesus said it, that does not abbrogate Moses understanding from God that absolutely no work was to be done on the Sabbath - I would call what Jesus did progressive revelation about the meaning of the Sabbath. But I also believe that Jesus was doing more than just declaring the Sabbath to be for man, He was also saying, "look your measuring stick of righteousness is wrong, you keeping the law is not the point, doing what is right in a given situation is the point - saving a life is a higher notch on that measuring stick than keeping laws." I may be very wrong about that, but that is the whole crux of what I keep saying. In looking at the following which you said, I got to thinking some more - Our lives are His bowler, not ours! I have no right to sin to protect myself, or others, based on the notion that God might not deliver. Then how come we have David, Jonathon, Rahab, Exodus mid-wives in the Bible doing what had to be done and God never addressed it, never condemned it, but said some of it were acts of faith? We can't rewrite the Bible, I agree with Val, we should not try to go beyond the Bible, if it does not explain it or condemn it why are we? blessings abound, bowler |
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2 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | Morant61 | 208014 | ||
Greetings Bowler! Allow me to address just the heart of the matter. Thanks for the response by the way. :-) You wrote at the end of your post: " Then how come we have David, Jonathon, Rahab, Exodus mid-wives in the Bible doing what had to be done and God never addressed it, never condemned it, but said some of it were acts of faith? We can't rewrite the Bible, I agree with Val, we should not try to go beyond the Bible, if it does not explain it or condemn it why are we?" Simply put, God does condemn lying all throughout Scripture. The cases you mention are narrative passages describing what happened, not didactic passages teaching how we should live. At best, you are arguing from silence. At worst, you are ignoring the clear statements of Scripture. Did people lie in the Old Testament? Sure they did! Did God ever say that it was okay to sin? No, He didn't! People also murdered, committed adultery, and worshiped idols, but that doesn't mean we should. :-) The issue that concerns me is the way that so many seem to be willing to justify deliberate sin if the ends are good. There simply isn't any Scripture to support such a notion my friend. In the final analysis, the question is are we going to obey God or not? This is going to be my final post on this issue, not because I am upset at you my friend. It is just that this thread has gotten quite long and not much more can be said. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 208024 | ||
Tim Moran I appreciate your concerns and am a little concerned that we all got off onto something the original questioner was not quite talking about, or asking about in the way we are pursuing this. In light of that, I myself will follow suit and leave off the subject. blessings abound, bowler |
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