Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207920 | ||
Azure I already pointed out in the cases of Rahab and Jonathon that it was the saving of lives that God accounted as right, and that they lying was not mentioned in the Bible as also being condoned. I was not condoning lying, but saving lives. Are you going to ignore what Jesus told the Pharisees? That they would of course break the law to save a life and that according to Jesus that was the right thing to do? Where did I say lying was right? I said to look at Doc's posts wherein he outlines the theological concept of God's use of Second Causes which sometimes includes man sinning to get done what He alone ordains by plan A because there is no plan B. I am not advocating lying. The entire problem here goes well beyond a simple it is wrong it is right outlook of what a Christian should do, as Jesus pointed out it is right to break a lesser law to save a life. Jesus was not merely showing Pharisees their sin, He was saying that they were hypocrites because anyone in their right mind would do what is necessary to save a life, even break a Ten Commandment that holds lesser weight than preserving a life. How often did Jesus say to the Pharisees that there law keeping of lesser things was not truly righteous. They had laws they made up and laws God made up and Jesus made a point of showing them that they once again were concerened about jots and tittles and were missing the larger intent of the law, which was not keeping jots and tittles in order to be righteous. It was to honor the "intent" of God's laws which could be summed up in two commandments - the Love the Lord they God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself - as He said all the other laws are summed up by these two. Therefore it is not right to allow someone to be murdered because you are so very concerned about lying, it is right, however to do what is in your power to do to save them because the excercise of love towards God and man in preserving a life that God preciously created is more important than maintaining the appearance of personal righteousness, whether virtual or real, keeping that does not trump saving a life. That is not condoning sin, it is choosing a higher commmandment by which to make a decisoin saving God's precious creation over lying. We are not law keepers, the love of Christ prevails over the law. The blood of Jesus is efficasious to cover as smaller sin of lying over being complicit in murder. The concept of saving a life over lying does not lend itself to other less dire reasons to lie, this is not about laying down normative principles of Christian behavior that lying is right. That is taking what I said way out of context. If you had to choose and God did not provide a way out for you, did not provide you another option; would you save the life or hold on to your righteous ability to not lie? God does not always provide a way out. "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. " This text is often misused to pressupose that God will make a way out of any situation as if "temptation" is referring to anything but what it means - to be tempted by a "desire" to sin, not a dire situation you cannot get out of. God did not allow David to escape from Saul for 13 years while he was on the run, God did not provide a way out when David had no choice by the run to Ziklag where he had to slaughter whole towns so that the ruler there would not discover David was lying to his face to survive, the lives of 600 plus people under David's resonsiblity were at stake. God did not provide a way out for any of the sticky situations David was in within which David resorted to subterfuge in various situations to survive until Saul was dead. God does not always provide an avenue where you will be able to do everything right. If he has done so for you, then God bless you. There are plently of people who have endured war time as civilians who did things to survive, it was either do what is necessary to survive or die. I do not think anyone except Jesus is so noble as to be able to endure all things the way He did that God would allow to happen. The Bible teaches that we are to strive and struggle with our salvation and to suffer for the sake of Christ. It does not say that we are supppossed to allow others to die so that we can appear to be righteous people simply for the sake of keeping God's laws. That is what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees. blessings abound, bowler |
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2 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | Val | 207923 | ||
Bowler, I agree with you. I heard someone say one time that God does not ask us to check our brains at the door when we come in to church nor should we check them at the door when lives are at stake. That is why I love to read the OT stories of people. There you see where God protects his people in all sorts of ways and sometimes it is to mislead the enemy. I believe he raised up Rahab to protect Israel. Common sense is common sense no matter how you cut it. Walk in the spirit and use common sense sounds good to me. | ||||||
3 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207967 | ||
Val Thank you Val. I really do believe that there are higher goods and lesser sins, although I have to admit that that concept of lessers sins has some problems with it. For instance if we break one sin, we break them all, so how could there be a lesser or a greater sin? Do you have any information or thoughts on this troublesome area of things Val? Mathew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gte; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction. blessings abound, bowler |
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4 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | Val | 207985 | ||
I believe the "if we break one sin, we break them all" topic is in reference to salvation. There are degrees of sin. We have different punishments for different crimes legally. A child rapist is certainly more evil than someone who passes a bad check. The same principle goes in a time of war or personal crisis. An evil person may want to rape the women and children of the house, am I to expect the men of the house to idlely stand by and say well yeah they are in the upstairs bedroom to the right. Duh. I would expect them to do everything in their power lie, cheat, steal, whatever it took to save the women and children in this particular situation. Now God has said we may protect our families and our country so I take that to mean protect them. Its like the former illustration which is the worse the rape of children and women or passing a bad check? I would think very little of a person who did not do all he could to protect the defenseless and innocent. Now if we lived in a perfect world where there would be no evil people, life would be simple but its not so again we must use our common sense. It was given to us for a reason. When evil people threaten our lives and the lives of our loved ones, we can defend ourselves. War is ugly. We do the best we can. God is our judge not our fellow man. So don't sweat the small stuff bowler. Press on. Blessings, Val |
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5 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | Morant61 | 207987 | ||
Greetings Val! You wrote: "I would think very little of a person who did not do all he could to protect the defenseless and innocent." This is the problem with situational ethics questions. An assumption is made that there is only one way to achieve the desired end. Do we want to protect innocent women and children from evil? Certainly! But, do we have to sin to accomplish this? No! Self-defense and/or defense of others is not a sin. If someone came into my house and tried to rape my family, they would meet two friends of mine - Smith and Wesson. :-) There is also an omnipotent God that we can depend upon to protect our families. Why would we have to resort to lying, cheating, or stealing? Do we really have so little trust in God that we would have to do things that God has specifically command us not to do? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | Val | 207990 | ||
Dear Tim, Not every person has guns in their homes so plan B has to go into effect. Again, common sense is the order of the day. God is our judge. He sees the motives of the heart. Let's leave it to Him. Blessings, Val |
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