Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Submit . . . unless it hurts? | Eph 5:33 | srchng | 66451 | ||
Maybe you all can help me with this. If I remember correctly, Job "submitted" to the Lord, saying, "Though He slay me, yet will I serve Him." If he didn't say that, please correct me (or tell me who did say it.) Or, if that wasn't submission, what is submission? It seems that Jesus also gives a model for submitting even to the point of death. Isn't that what the martyrs did too? Isn't that the scriptural model of submission to God? Then there's Daniel and his buddies, perhaps with a different dynamic. If this is proper submission to the Lord, then how can wives submit to their husbands "as unto the Lord?" (Eph. 5:22) Do wives have a lesser calling to submission to the Lord than men (or husbands, specifically) so that they are called on to submit to their husbands less than these scriptural (and martyr-type) models of submission submitted to the Lord? Did God design women (wives, specifically) to be less capable of the strengths or qualities necessary for submission than Job, Jesus, and the martyrs (some of whom were women?) Submission to anyone, even God, is a tough pill for any person to swallow, due to what we refer to as "sin nature." Submission to the point of pain or injury, let alone death, is naturally untenable. Are we called to live "naturally?" Please help me see where scripture relieves a wife of the resposibility under God to submit to her husband because it pains, injures, or even kills her. Isn't a husband (or wife) to submit to the Lord that way? I'd really like to understand this. Please help if you can. Thanks, -srchng |
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2 | Submit . . . unless it hurts? | Eph 5:33 | retxar | 66543 | ||
To insist that a wife submitting to a physically abusive husband in a life treating relationship is God’s intent and meaning, is a real twist and abuse of His WORD. The scripture you give (Eph 5:22) to justify your position, no where suggest or implies in the least that abuse is the “tough pill women are required to swallow”, as you put it, in order to comply withe THE WORD. What an insult! Eph 5:22 says for wives to submit to their own husbands, as unto the Lord. Enduring abuse, pain, injury, and death, is not “as unto the Lord”, but rather, is as unto the devil. Rightly divide the Word of truth, retxar |
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3 | Submit . . . unless it hurts? | Eph 5:33 | srchng | 66612 | ||
retxar, I'm afraid I wasn't as clear as I thought I was, or that perhaps you misread me. In reality, I never stated a position. Rather, I asked a set of questions in the context of citations of "models" of submission to the Lord that leave one marvelling. I had no "position" to justify with the scripture I gave. I certainly didn't "insist that a wife submitting to a physically abusive husband in a life threatening relationship is God's intent and meaning." What I actually did was ask the question. And I asked whether wives are called to a lower standard of submission to their husbands than the standard of submission to the Lord that men are called to, with a request for correction if I'd misunderstood submission. But I didn't ask it that succinctly. I also didn't assert, (as you said that scripture doesn't suggest or imply,) that abuse is the “tough pill women are required to swallow.” If you re-read, you'll see that I said that submission to anyone, even God, is a tough pill for *anyone* (not just women) to swallow, due to what we call "sin nature." And no insult toward anyone was intended. You may be right that enduring abuse, pain, injury, and death, is not “as unto the Lord”, but rather, is as unto the devil. But I wouldn't want to say that to John the Baptist, Job, Jesus, the martyrs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum (or so.) I am looking for scriptural principles that can be applied to real life, even if I don't like the immediate ramifications. I'm looking for truth that supercedes temporal convenience, comfort, and even safety. I believe there's more to Life than just this life, so I need to be or *become* willing to spend this life wisely, in light of scripture. The questions at hand are these: 1) If it wasn't submission to the Lord when Job said, "Though He slay me, yet will I serve Him," (or when others surrendered even their very lives to Him,) then what is submission "unto the Lord?" 2) Do wives have a lesser calling to submission to the Lord than men (or husbands, specifically) so that they are called on to submit to their husbands less than these scriptural (and martyr-type) models of submission submitted to the Lord? (Assuming that these are God-ordained models of submission. If they aren't , please explain why, scripturally. I'd like to get your perspective.) 3) If women are called to a lesser submission "to the Lord" than men are called to, then why? 4) Are women (wives, specifically) called to submit to the Lord according to these "models," the same as men are called to submit to the Lord? 5) If women are called to submit to their husbands, "as unto the Lord," according to these scriptural "models" of submission to the Lord, then how does that exclude the painful, injurious, or deadly stuff? And the last plea I made was, "Please help me see where scripture relieves a wife of the resposibility under God to submit to her husband because it pains, injures, or even kills her." As for rightly dividing the Word of Truth, that's what I was asking for help with. Can you help? Thanks in advance, -srchng |
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4 | Submit . . . unless it hurts? | Eph 5:33 | retxar | 66615 | ||
I re-read your post and am very sorry if I misread it, but must admit I am no wiser on what you are asking me now than before. If you are not indeed questioning women who do not endure abuse, pain, torment, and even death, in an abusive relationship, I really don't know what you are saying? I don't see how any of the "models" as you have called them, have anything to do with any women “taking a beating” from an abusive man, and how that could possible be honorable unto the Lord? The submissiveness of a wife in marriage simply means she trust her husband to hear from the Lord on her behalf. If he is obviously not hearing from the Lord, any word God would have otherwise spoken thru the husband on his wives behalf, will be spoken directly to the wife. Please consider what Charis and Joe have said to you. Out of curiosity, how many women have you counseled in life threatening relationships? Was your advise for them to “hang in there baby”, because that's what God requires of them because of the "model" of Job? How did that turn out? Did they understand what you were talking about and how that applied to their situation? Would you give the same advice to your daughter or sister? I have advised women in threatening situations to seek the protection necessary for themselves and their children. How was I, according to the WORD, giving the wrong advice? What would you have advised instead? retxar |
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