Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "objects of wrath" | Eph 2:3 | New Creature | 98720 | ||
My question concerns the Biblical term "objects of wrath" Does an "object of wrath" have to remain in that condition, or can he be moved to a state where it may be said he now has become an "object of mercy"? Look at these verses; Romans 9 22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- From the following verse it appears that even the saved were (past tense) "objects of wrath" It seems, here at least, that being an "object of wrath" is not an fixed unmoveable condition. Would that be correct? Ephesians 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. New Creature |
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2 | "objects of wrath" | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 98727 | ||
Dear NC, Romans 9 22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- You concluded "From the following verse it appears that even the saved were (past tense) "objects of wrath" It seems, here at least, that being an "object of wrath" is not an fixed unmoveable condition." I think you are making a mistake that we all make from time to time, that is, reading our pre-suppositions into the text and forgetting to consider the preceeding verses. Paul had stated in Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! (15) For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." (16)So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Paul, knowing that his statement will bring surprise and protest from some, anticipates their objection and states the anticipated question, then answers it for them it for them: Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Paul then ( so as to humble the objectors) reminds them what they are, and Who God is! They perhaps, were of the opinion that they (lumps of clay) had a right to protest over God’s (The Potter) right to form them according to His purpose alone. They thought they had “rights “ which superceded those of their Maker! Paul sets them straight. I believe it is important to remember that those who were not chosen by God to receive mercy have no right to protest because all have freely sinned and deserve only His justice. My advise is…don’t complicate this chapter by reading into it that which it does not say. John |
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3 | "objects of wrath" | Eph 2:3 | New Creature | 98738 | ||
John; I appreciate your response. After reading it, the following statement you made stuck out. "it is important to remember that those who were not chosen by God to receive mercy have no right to protest" I personally believe God has mercy on all. The reason I state that is because of the following Scripture Rom. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Rom. 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. Rom. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all (Jew and Gentiles) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Could you please explain this? Grace be unto you New Creature |
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4 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 98760 | ||
Dear NC, Rom 11:30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, Paul is speaking primarily to the gentile believers at Rome. He is showing why it is that God has not forsaken the Jews altogether, but has used their disobediance as a means of being merciful to the disobediant gentiles. Rom 11:31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. So these (meaning Jews). Rom 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Yes, God MAY show mercy to all. But has He? The Bible does not support the idea that all (universaly) have recieved that mercy. He has mercy on those to whom He will have mercy. God is still the one who chooses. Romans 9 and 11 must agree with one another in order for our interpretation to be sound. In Romans 9 those who recieve mercy are those whom are fashioned into vessels of honor. Do you believe that God does not fashion vessels of dishonor (common use)? Will not each person spend eternity in either Heaven or Hell? If your answer is "Yes", then what is the point of God's being mercifull to "pots" whose end He knows is destruction? John |
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5 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | mkm9 | 98765 | ||
Oh John!-This is such an important issue--Yes he "may' do whatever He as potter chooses--but we must understand as best we can--with our sheeps understanding--that the creator has given a name to every star all he has created He loves and names--can we be less to Him than His stars---We are His bride--mkm9-previously angel1 | ||||||
6 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 99236 | ||
Yes indeed mkm9, Those of us who are in Christ have much to be thankfull for. Left to our own devices, we never would have agreed to a union with Him. But His call was irresistible! John |
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7 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | Hank | 99239 | ||
John Reformed - "But His call was irrestible!" You are talking about the "I" in the TULIP theory -- Irrestible Grace -- I suppose. Are you telling this forum that God forced you to follow Him whether you wanted to or not? Is that your position, John? --Hank | ||||||