Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 98865 | ||
Dear NC, You wrote: "My question wasn't about the identity of who these individuals were, but rather that the individuals mentioned, no matter who you view them as being, were not in a fixed or unmovable state of being "objects of wrath". I agree with your conclusion. But in Rom 9 the term used is "vessels PREPARED for destruction" (caps mine). My point being that "objects of wrath" represent mankind universally, but vessels prepared for destruction represent those to whom mercy has not been given. This country, in particular, has a great deal of difficulty in accepting the fact that no one has a right to mercy. In fact if mercy was a right it would not be mercy at all. Paul clearly states mercy to be up to God alone. He gives it and witholds it according to His good pleasure...And He always does so in holiness and according to justice. Our problem is believing that God would purpose to show mercy to some, but, justice to the rest. It seems un-democratic (small d). We forget that God's government is a Kingship and He is a soveriegn King! 17 Dan 4:35 "All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?' John |
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2 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | New Creature | 99213 | ||
John Just as an additional note your interpretation makes a distinction between three classes of people 1. "objects of wrath" (prepared for destruction) 2. "objects of mercy" (prepared for glory) 3. "objects of wrath" (which are not prepared for destruction) I find clear indication in Scripture for class 1 and 2 but not 3 I see the elect and the non-elect, the saved and the lost, those in the light and those who remain in darkness. Those whose Father is God, and those whose father is the devil. In each each instance there are two classes described. I can't find an in-between third class of people mentioned. So I doubt the possibility of the distinction you seem to mention. Blessings to you New Creature |
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3 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 99218 | ||
NC, Thanks for your post. I need to clear up my meaning for you. All men by nature are objects of wrath. Within this group are are two sub-groups. The those who recieve mercy (objects of mercy) and those who do not (objects of wrath prepared for destruction). John |
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4 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | New Creature | 99231 | ||
John Where do you find your support that the group labeled "objects of wrath" has within it a sub group. Throughout Scripture there is always a division of two groups. The Saved and Lost The Elect and non-elect Those in the light and those yet in darkness The children of God and children of the devil Believers and unbelievers The above distinctions can easily be proven from Scripture. The sub-group within a group you mention, cannot in my opinion be founded upon Scripture. It's one thing to say there is a sub group. But before it can be accepted, it must find support throughout Scripture. Blessing to you New Creature |
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5 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | John Reformed | 99234 | ||
The Elect(objects of mercy) and non-elect (objects of wrath pre-pared for destruction). The reason that you do not see the obvious is because you do not believe (correct me if I am wrong) that there are "objects of wrath prepared for destruction". Like most modern evangelicals, you probably believe "man is the captain of his soul and the master of his fate." I would'nt fault you for feeling this way. Most of us, including myself, were brought up believing that we are entitled to choose whether or not Christ will rule in our lives. In other words: We get to vote yea or nay; we elect ourselves. The trouble with this viewpoint is that God is not the President of a democracy. He is the King who rules over His domain, dispencing mercy or justice according to His good pleasure. I do not deny that this is a bitter pill to swallow. My own initial reaction was "thats not fair!". The strange thing is that once I humbled myself before the God's Word (which convinced me that Scripture supported God's sovereign rule over all things), it began to be sweeter and sweeter as the pill was digested in my belly. This truth is taught throughout Scripture. If you really are serious about it's foundation, I suggest you go to: www.reformed.org/books/pink/pink_sov_01.html John |
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6 | Is the Potter free to do as He pleases? | Eph 2:3 | Hank | 99238 | ||
John Reformed - To New Creature you say, "Like most modern evangelicals, you probably believe 'man is the captain of his soul and the master of his fate.' ..... Do you know most modern evangelicals? Unless you do, this is not only a particularly offensive remark but a dishonest one too. I'm an evangelical and I suppose a modern one, since I live in this so-called modern age, and I don't believe that I'm the captain of my soul or the master of my fate. I believe in the sovereign God every ounce as much as any Calvinist claims to, but, unlike the Calvinist, I believe that God so loved everybody in the world that He gave His one and only Son that WHOEVER (not whoever of the 'elect') believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. (cf. John 3:16) --Hank | ||||||