Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Free will and predestination co-exist? | Rom 8:29 | mark d seyler | 178558 | ||
Hi ZtheBerean, What I actually said was: "I agree with you in priciple that it is by the grace of God that we are made able to be obedient to faith." Not that we are "made to be obedient to faith." I believe the term commonly used to describe my understanding is "prevenient grace", although I do not claim all of the associations you will find with this term if you google it. This is the essence of Romans 10:9: Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; You can't reach up into heaven to pull Christ down to you. You can't reach into the grave - this isn't by your power. But God has brought salvation to you. It is as near to you as your heart is, and as your lips are. God has brought to you the message of faith, that if you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, you will be saved. God has brought this to you, now, just receive it as your own - confess - say the same thing as - agree with God, and believe - put your confidence in - the God Who raised Jesus from the dead will raise you - and you will be saved. My point was simply to say that the grace spoken of in Romans 1:5 which you referenced was a grace given to Paul specifically for a specific purpose. The Paul has received grace, and we have received grace, but the grace received in verse 5 was received by Paul, and it does not serve our discussion to take that out of context. Believing and Faith are the same thing (Greek Pisteuw), therefore, believing is not "obedience to the faith", it IS the faith. Also, "grace" is from "charis", and speaks of favor, or gift, while "glory" is from "doxa", which speaks of good report, or high opinion. I understand that we have a sharp disagreement over this concept. I do not wish to become involved in a protracted debate. The most important matter between us is that we both believe. Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Free will and predestination co-exist? | Rom 8:29 | ZtheBerean | 178844 | ||
Hi Mark; I am sorry that you are in sharp disagreement over truth, grace, and glory. And so much so that you don’t feel “willing” to become involved over this matter, because we both have faith. Let me say, that the unifying mode is not faith, for even the devil’s believe (James 2:19). Rather what is most important is GRACE. For we cannot be saved by faith, unless we are saved by grace. Remember the rule of by faith: It [faith] has to be under grace to be in hope of the glory (Rom. 5:2). In response to my testimony: Another word for grace is GLORY (Rom. 1:23); The truth reveals the grace of God (Col. 1:6 cf. Rom. 1:25). Please don’t change this truth, lest you also change the glory, and God give you over to your own will be done. It was not our will that is to lead us, it is rather the goodness of God that is to lead us to repentance (Rom. 2:4). All of this is so that our faith could be acceptable to God in Christ. YOU SAID: "grace" is from "charis", and speaks of favor, or gift, while "glory" is from "doxa", which speaks of good report, or high opinion. LET ME SAY: Now while looking into the original languages can often-times reap interesting insight, this is not always true. Case in point, technically and linguistically what you say sounds right; but it fails when we take my presentation into the Scriptures to find out what God has to say about the inter-connectivity of truth, grace, and glory in the context of the obedience of the faith, which has a true belief system, procedure, or doctrine. Jesus as the Word was made into flesh, so that we could behold His glory: Wherein we are informed that the glory is full of grace and truth (Jn. 1:14). And so my whole point is if you are messing around with what grace plainly teaches (see Gal. 1:15 with 6), YOU are having to change the truth, which reveals grace (Col. 1:6), and the glory, which is revealed as the fullness of the Son of God our Father in grace and truth working together as one Word. Those who do THIS THING, meaning;- change THESE THINGS (Rom. 1:23 and 25) are worthy of death (Rom. 1:32). It is added that those who are in sin, as sinners, come short of the glory of God: Meaning;- they are outside the truth for grace (Rom. 3:23). Therefore it is added that our justification unto the glory is by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (3:24). Wherein it is added that without believing in this truth, there can be no justification BY faith (3:28). Obedience to the faith is conditional/dependant upon grace, for faith to be biblical belief MUST be under grace, and not over it. It would be mere semantics to say that faith and believing can only mean one and the same thing in light of this truth alone. But let us move on, now if we have found grace in the sight of the Lord, before we were born (Gal. 1:15), then we can have access by faith into the grace to stand in hope of having the glory of God (Rom. 5:2). This is why the Scriptures speak of grace, grace: For we need to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ, if we are to be said to have the calling by the gospel (2Thes. 2:14). Many people have faith, but do they have this belief system, meaning;- the obedience of the faith? Without the abundance of grace (meaning;- all grace, from the God of all grace 1Pet. 5:10), there is no glory to God (2Cor. 4:15). Therefore grace needs to be administered to our hearers, so that there could be glory to the Lord (2Cor. 8:19). Glory is therefore of grace, wherein we find that it is God who is thus making us acceptable in the beloved (Eph. 1:6). His glory which is communicable is herein called the riches of His grace in the redemption that is through the blood for forgiveness (1:7). All of this is accomplished NOT by our will, but rather by the mystery of His will being accomplished through His purpose (1:9-8). Even Jesus Christ Himself needed to be by grace, so that He could be said to be with glory (Heb. 2:9). Consequently, if we don’t grow in grace, there is no glory for our Lord Jesus Christ BOTH now and forever (2Pet. 3:18). I thought this such an important THING, which you seem to be changing, that I have set forth these Scriptures for your edification, so that you might agree with me and THEM: That when we don’t teach grace, we change the truth, and of necessity the glory of God. I pray that you might have the grace to agree with the teaching of grace through God’s mercy, so that your faith might be moved of God and not of your own will, lest you end up with nothing more than boasting for your salvation (Jm. 4:13 with 16 in the context of 4:15 compared to Eph. 2:8-10). Blessings in His grace, which is for grace, Ztheberean |
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