Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | peacebestill | 209290 | ||
Kcabm How about a consideration of Romans the whole chapter 7 in this discussion about sanctification? What happens during sanctification really any how? Is it not true that what has been redeemed is the immaterial part of man, the spirit of man? And is it not true that the flesh has not yet been redeemed and will not be redeemed until Jesus returns? How then can we say that Christians will not sin before their bodies have been redeemed? That is not to say we condone sin, or wallow in sin, or to say that Christians lives continually in sin. But it does go to Romans 7; that there is a sin nature present in the flesh which is presently waring with the spirit in the true believer. And it goes to the understanding that Christians are still sinners who fall down, but they have an advocate and repent and are forgiven of sins. Does not John say in 1 John that whoever says he does not sin is a liar? And then does he not say we have the advocate and that who ever sins is to ask for forgiveness from Jesus? You raised the issue of consecration to God as having happened only once right? I think that Romans would be really helpfull in this whole discussion because there are concepts as doctrine that happen to the believer only once as absolutes, and then other concepts as doctrine are ongoing works of the Holy Spirit. Take Romans 1:16, 17 for instance, which contains the doctrine of salvation. Now, the faith of the preacher is to preach (Romans 12:6 do your gifts according to the faith supplied to you), and the faith of the hearer is to believe the gospel; Romans 1:17. Right there we have elements of how the doctrine of salavation works in part, obviously Jesus is key to it. That being said, salvation happens only once, and as a doctrine need not have any further activity as just salvation. Take the doctrine of justification, that happens only once. You get saved, and God looks at you as covered in the blood of Jesus and declares you justified once and for all time; Romans 3:21-5. But the doctrine of sanctification happens as soon as you are saved and justified, but continues through time as an ongoing process until you are changed forever at the resurrection. You see we are being cleaned up by the Holy Spirit inside, and that results in our outward good deeds and outward righteous behavior. But the work is done by the Holy Spirit and we are merely reflecting that work in our efforts to keep from sinning, and we do this by the power of the Holy Spirit. So it is not really that Christians do not any longer sin, it is that we are saved sinners who are still sinners whom God is cleaning up until one day we will look and be just like Jesus. We will be resurrected from the dead and we will all be changed, and then we will sin no more ever again. It is our responsibility to do every thing in our power not to sin, but we do falter and fail, and for this we have the advocate. Let's turn to consecration. Consecration is only mentioned in the Old Testament and is not a New Testament concept coming from the teachings of Jesus or the apostles. That does not mean there is not consecration for the Christian, but we do not find this concept addressed in the New Testament except to quote the Old Testament. Many substitute the sanctification concept for the consecration concept using all of Hebrews for their idea. But, to consecrate is to set a thing or a person apart for the exlcusive use of God to do some part or portion for His work. This does not refer to the internal process with an outward result of being cleaned up by the Holy Spirit. Consecration is the external practice of cleansing objects or people so that they will be fit to do God's work. I do believe that John's passages that you have there have to be understood in light of the idea that a person who continually lives in sin is suspect and that they may not even be saved. But, that Paul's Romans really is the major Bible book describing all the ins and outs of sanctification. Hope this helps, by the way, you are so very refreshing, and I have enjoyed all your posts. peacebestill |
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2 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | KcabmI4 | 209317 | ||
Mr peacebestill Iam disagreeing with what you have written did you see the 2nd post of mine to mr. Tim? This Iam thinking will say everything best for you to see.Thank you for your kind words KcabmI4 Romans 6 1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. |
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3 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | peacebestill | 209329 | ||
Kcbam Yes I did see your post to Tim Moran, which is why I did post you. We can't take one piece of what the Bible has to say about the Christian and the ability to sin, or the responsibility not to sin and ability not to sin and only take one of those stances alone because the scripture says two things about sin without contradicting itself. Romans all of chapter 7 does indeed say that Christians are in a war between the flesh which does still sin and the spirit which does not want to sin. 1 John chapter 1 and does say that WHO EVER says they do not sin is a liar, and 1 John chapter 2 does say that the Christian has an advocate and can ask for forgiveness. What Paul is saying in the verse you have there does not contradict what Paul also says in Romans 7 that believers do sin, as he is not talking about unbeleivers in chapter 7, but believers. He uses the word "I" and is talking about his own experience as a believer that he does indeed have problems with sinning as a believer... He goes on to say in verse 1 of chapter 8 that for the believer there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus because the law of of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and of death. What you are purporting there is that one gets sanctified by works, and that is just as bad as saying one gets saved by works. If one is saved by faith along by grace alone, then one is also sanctified by faith alone by grace alone - both of these acts by God alone have as a component that the believer will exhibit outward works because the Holy Spirit is active in the believer. You make a mistake because you cannot say you do not now sin as a believer yourself! Is this not true? Or do you say you as a believer have never sinned since you first believed? If you answer no, I have never sinned since being a believer, according to 1 John, you are a liar. Now, if you are willing to admit you have sinned since you became a believer, then you have to concede to Paul's point in chapter 7 of Romans that you still are struggling with sin and that you are doing the things you do not want to do... So if you are still doing the things you do not want to do, then your salvation, and your sanctification rest in the power of God. The first having been completed and the second having been started and to be completed. Or can you say you now look and act just like Jesus and that you are now sinless and glorifed completely? And how can we say the flesh is now saved? In what sense is the flesh now saved if it still dies as a result of sin, for sin brings about death? Is it not true that our souls have been buried in death with Christ and raised from the dead, but that our bodies are not yet raised from the dead? How then, if the body has not been raised from the dead according to the promise can we say the body has been saved? If our bodies according to 1 Corinthians has yet to be raied imperishable in chapter 15, then how can we say it already has been? Seeing as how Jesus and Paul both say that as soon as you believe in Jesus you have eternal life, but the body still dies, then your soul is what now has attained to eternal life and your body is waiting to attain that eternal life. And who says that because you now sin as a believer that you are not saved or sanctified? In Romans chapter 6 Paul is laying down the principle that we CAN CONQUER sin in the flesh, and that it will not be mastered by it, it does not say that we will erradicate sin while in the flesh. If it was saying that, then why is there a Romans 7 saying we have not erradicated it? In Romans chapter 7:1-6 Paul lays down the principle that we are married to Christ forever. In Romans chapter 8:37-39 it says that there is nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ - that includes sin as things present and things to come. Or do you believe that if one sins he is not a Christian? And if you believe that do you believe you can lose your salvation too? The two go hand in hand... peacebestill |
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