Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Visit other churches? | Rom 16:16 | Reformer Joe | 34451 | ||
My anecdote was not to be a generalization, just an autobiographical sketch. And you must admit in certain circles certain individuals with certain leanings very often dress in a certain way to look a certain part. I have to wonder, Randy, why you had so little to say about what actually WENT ON during that service. Surely you do not find such practices to be truly of the Holy Spirit we see in Scripture. And, assuming that you do not, what is your standard for telling this pastor that he is in the wrong? :) I am happy with the "trend" I fit in. It is a trend which says that the God of the Bible must clearly be revealed as He is. I think it is an oversimplification to place me in one of two categories, for there are a number of ways that I see the whole counsel of God disguised rather than revealed from the pulpit. For example: 1. The category that I have already alluded to (the Bible-waving and getting people excited without actually saying ANYTHING accurate about God). 2. The preaching of the "warm and fuzzy" aspects of God's character and at the same time intentionally hiding those aspects and requirements which rightfully make us uncomfortable (e.g. His holiness and righteous wrath and demand for repentance). 3. Preaching a "gospel" of morality rather than the gospel of the Bible. 4. Preaching a "gospel" of social/political activism rather tham the Gospel of the Bible. 5. Replacing the proclamation of God's Word with adherance to extra-biblical (or even un-biblical) tradition. 6. Replacing the historical gospel of Jesus crucified and resurrected with a "let's all be nice to each other" message. 7. Painting Jesus to be a cosmic therapist to meet our every need (read: our every "want") rather than the Lord of all. So we can see that the misrepresentation of God and His Word crosses all kinds of churches and traditions. It is far too basic to lump Bible abuse into the categories of "orderly" and "free-spirited." I fully agree with you that there is not a tremendous amount of fellowship/dialogue across the "Pentecostal divide." Some are just stereotyping what they have not personally experienced or do not understand. From my own perspective, I can only say that my difficulties with some on the other side of the divide stems from my spiritual gift of discernment and the opposition of many (not ALL) in the other camp to the exercise of that gift (the whole "don't quench the Spirit" thing). You are right that neither has a monopoly on truth. However, it goes deeper than agreeing what the truth is; I perceive the root of the problem being epistemological. That is, how can we know truth? Do we lean heavily on our own subjective experience to assert what God's truth is, or is God's written revelation the ultimate authority in the matter? Neither camp will DENY the importance of God's Word, just as neither group will reject the importance of actually experiencing the Spirit at work in one's life. The tension arises, however, when some incident or experience arises which is attributed to the Spirit by some but argued to be contrary to Scripture by others. In cases like this, do we make the ultimate appeal to the Bible or to our sincere feeling that the situation was a "move of the Spirit"? --Joe! |
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2 | Visit other churches? | Rom 16:16 | charis | 34602 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings to you in Jesus' name! Brother, I do not condone the actions that you describe in your 'autobiographical sketch.' Nor do I engage in such actions. I think they are scandalous. But... I see scandal in every type of church. If I may quote Joe!: What makes a church or denomination a Christian one? (a) Belief that the Bible alone is the sole authority of faith and practice; (b) belief that we are saved from our sinfulness against a holy God by God's grace ALONE through faith ALONE in Chirst's sinless life and subsitutionary death and resurrection ALONE. (end quote) I agree with the above. I think that most Christians do, too. What you are saying is that the (a) part, specifically the 'faith and practice' part must be in line with 'approved' methods in order to be real. But part (b) is the clincher, right? Why anyone would subject themselves to such charlatans, and foolish behavior is beyond my understanding. But they do, willingly! And, many are those were in a structured church, and didn't like it. Go figure! Joe!, God's people go to these type of churches and are blessed and satisfied. Some have little or no education, some are intimidated by order, some are outcasts, some are rebels, some are terminally liberal, but most go because they chose to. If they are saved by grace through faith, then...? As to bringing 'false ministers' to justice, I don't know how to do it. If you think that by 'educating the masses' we can stop them, think again. Most are not there because they are duped, but know about 'orderly' churches and chose the 'disorderly.' Joe, you are 'preaching to the choir' here! I agree with much of your stance, but my observations hold! Much of each side's actions are reactions to the other side. Your view of the Type 1 church is the *ideal,* and your particular church may be very close to this *ideal,* But reality is often not what we want it to be. The reality is that many Type 1 churches are un-Biblically rigid and judgmental, and make no room for Christians that do not fit their mold, often sending these saints to Type 2 churches. This (also!) is not pleasing to God. Anyway, I promised to stop, didn't I? :-) I love you, brother, and enjoy your posts very much. We shall meet again! In Christ Jesus, charis (Randy) |
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