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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Levitate, go to heaven, or the City? | Rom 11:25 | EdB | 139456 | ||
MJH I'm surprised you went with the Emperor theory after what you said about the bridegroom. The continuation of the story of the Bridegroom is that after the Groom finishes his addition to his father’s house for his bride. And after his father agrees it is finished the groom prepares to retrieve his bride. He dresses in his wedding attire and the groom’s wedding party is formed. The bride is unaware of what is taking place so to alert her, the groom sends ahead ‘groomsmen’ that as warning the groom approaches, proclaiming the Groom is coming. The bride when so alerted immediately prepares to receive her groom. Of course the groom tarries long enough for the bride to be fully ready and her wedding procession to form and then with a trumpet blast and further shouts the groom arrives at the Brides house as a great procession of people in celebration continues to build. At this point the Bride accompanies the groom back the father’s house they pass through the town or village and it is almost parade like. When they reach the father’s house the wedding ceremony is performed and everyone joins in and the great marriage supper is eaten. Later the marriage is consummated with bride in white raiment. Then the sheet proving the virginity of the bride is displayed. As the people of Thessalonica read what Paul has wrote they would have further added to what they already knew that they were the bride and the groom one day was coming for them. This would have just been further collaboration of the already well-known analogy of the church as the bride of Christ. Now back to your question. Yes I believe the wedding feast will be eaten in what is now heaven (presence of the Lord) and we will tarry there until all that must be accomplished here on earth is completed (that in itself open a whole new discussion Pre trib, mid trib, post trib etc.). However once again God and Christ will on day reside on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem. Therefore since we are eternally present with the Lord our final home will be the New Earth and the New Jerusalem, not heaven as such where many picture us dancing from cloud to cloud. Incidentally your analogy of the Emperor would have never sold to the readers of Paul’s letter. Their hatred of Roman and Roman custom( actually all Pagan culture) would have caused them to rent their clothing had the thought Paul was making such a collation. EdB |
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2 | Levitate, go to heaven, or the City? | Rom 11:25 | MJH | 139473 | ||
Good response...but... I liked your more detailed rendering of the Bridegroom story. And you are right; the groom returns for the bride and takes her to be with him. They do not live in the bride’s town. However, all parables break down at some point which is one reason why there are so many of them (particularly concerning the "kingdom of God/Heaven). I know; you're thinking I'm now reading what I WANT to read; but go with me on this for a bit. Question: Does this parable in light of other scripture, lend us to believe that Jesus is a) preparing a place; b) will come for His bribe; and finally c) bring the whole city of Jerusalem with Him (Rev 21-22)? Therefore, do we still have God dwelling with man on the Earth which is made new? Also, Paul used pagan and cultural points many times in his letters. Remember, he is not speaking to Jews in Galilee who live in these Insulas (households), but to Gentiles living in Roman cities in Asia Minor. The Apostle John used this same technique many times while writing the letter called “Revelation.” For example, Diocletian ruled very harshly. Earlier Emperors claimed to be gods but always allowed places like Israel to continue worshiping their own God. But not Diocletian! He was called the Beast in his day. He required a mark on your hand that acknowledged that you worshiped him as lord and savior. Without the mark you could not participate in commerce. There are numerous examples in Paul and John’s letters that use common experience from the current political, economic, and pagan religious experience. There are illusions to these same things in the Gospels as well. When Jesus is asked if paying taxes is okay, it is important to know why He asked for a coin, what was written on the coin, and the multi-purpose of coins in the first century. I’m not suggesting you are unaware of this stuff, but mention it to make the point that Paul most certainly could and did use the current political/pagan religious experience to drive home a point about who REALLY is both God and Savior. (Thanks for following this thread; I’m helped in working this stuff out in my own mind by virtue of having to articulate ideas and thoughts with you. I have always been led to believe one way, but as I studied I began to realize that some of my own understandings of how God relates to mankind had to change. This is good of course assuming the change is correct and leads me to a more righteous life. In the end, I think this understanding of God as it relates to Him wanting to make His dwelling with mankind, changes how we view our life here and now. God is concerned with the place where he wants to dwell. I believe the mentality of “Get ‘em saved, and move on to the next guy” has done the community of believers harm, and in the end actually “saves” less souls. How one understands the “Kingdom of God/Heaven” also has a profound impact on how we live our life.) |
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3 | Levitate, go to heaven, or the City? | Rom 11:25 | EdB | 139545 | ||
Question: Does this parable in light of other scripture, lend us to believe that Jesus is a) preparing a place; b) will come for His bribe; and finally c) bring the whole city of Jerusalem with Him (Rev 21-22)? Therefore, do we still have God dwelling with man on the Earth which is made new? Answer A Yes I believe Jesus is preparing a place, I think that place is the New Jerusalem. B. Yes Jesus will return for his bride and take her with him for wedding feast. C. Yes Jesus will then lead us to the New Earth and He and God will dwell in the New Jerusalem among his people, that then will be heaven since heaven is where God is. Also, Paul used pagan and cultural points many times in his letters. Remember, he is not speaking to Jews in Galilee who live in these Insulas (households), but to Gentiles living in Roman cities in Asia Minor Your right I used the words Roman and pagan I should have used European since European culture had Emperors and Kings that moved in processions as you described. Your right Paul was speaking to gentiles but they middle eastern culture and they hated the Romans and European culture. I have heard the rumors of Diocletian requiring marks on the hand but I have never found a noted historian secular or religious that documents this. If you have something by a legitimate research historian I would love to read it. Until then I think it is best left in the myth file. Yes I know of the other reference illustrations to pagan or Roman culture but let’s go back to context. We are talking eternity, death, and what happens next. I think the writer would want to use illustrations that would cause peace and reassurance not something that may also stir up ill feelings. What is more soothing than the idyllic wedding scene, with all the joy and happiness of the new bride and groom and everyone that was going to partake in the wedding feast. No I don’t think they were referring to a Roman Emperor returning victorious from a campaign leading the procession of common people who were actually wishing they were the king rather than a participant in the celebration. You keep pressing this issue and I think you miss my point. The present heaven is not where we spend eternity. Yes we go there for a period of time but we return with Jesus and God and dwell through eternity on the New Earth living in the New Jerusalem. Yes God is among his people. EdB |
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