Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | MJH | 139101 | ||
Has the church replaced Israel? | ||||||
2 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | kalos | 139243 | ||
A Kingdom For ISRAEL ____________________ "A straightforward understanding of the Old Testament leads to only one conclusion and that is that there is a kingdom for Israel." ____________________ '...it is obvious God promised a future kingdom to Israel. And when somebody comes along and says all the promises of the kingdom to Israel are fulfilled in the Church, the burden of proof is not on me, it's on them. The simplest way that I would answer someone, who is...believing that there is one covenant and the Church is the new Israel, and Israel is gone, and there is no future for Israel... 'My answer to them is simply this, "You show me that verse, in the Old Testament, which promises a kingdom to Israel, where it says that it really means the Church--show me!" Where does it say that? On what exegetical basis, what historical, grammatical, literal, interpretative basis of the Scripture can you tell me that when God says "Israel" He means the "Church"? Where does it say that? That's where the burden of proof really lies. A straightforward understanding of the Old Testament leads to only one conclusion and that is that there is a kingdom for Israel. One way to understand that is to ask yourself a question. In the Old Testament . . . and if you wanted to get sort of a general sense of what the Old Testament is about, it's simply about this--it reveals God and His Law, and it tells what's going to happen to you if you obey it, and what's going to happen to you if you don't--and then it gives you a whole lot of illustrations of that--right? It reveals God and His Law and it tells you what's going to happen to you if you obey it, and if you don't--blessings and cursing. (...) '...the literal interpretation of Scripture. Listen folks, once you're not literal, then who's to say? Right? I mean, then why not just say, "Well, Israel really means 'left-handed Texans'? If it's not exegetical--if it's not in the text, it could mean 'Canadians'" How can you say, if you can't say what's literally there? ____________________ To read more go to: www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-16-9.htm |
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3 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | Praise Be To God | 139251 | ||
Dear Kalos, You have spoken well here. I believe Ezekiel 28:25-26 also illustrates your point: "Thus saith the Lord God; when I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the Lord their God." Janae. |
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4 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | MJH | 139275 | ||
Wasn't this passage already fulfilled even before Jesus came? | ||||||
5 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | EdB | 139281 | ||
Actually no Israel (Judea) was never scattered before Christ. The prophecy in Genesis 49:10 (NKJV) 10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people. Did not occur until 4 AD when Rome took authority from the Jews to pronounce the death sentence. However when Shiloh (the rest giver) which was Jesus came the scepter was taken from Judah. Then in around 70AD the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire as retaliation for their rebellion. It wasn’t until early 1900’s when we begin to see the Jews return to the Promised Land that this prophecy began to be fulfilled. Then in 1948 Israel was officially recognized as a nation and regathering moved into full swing. EdB |
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6 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | MJH | 139303 | ||
I thought that Judah was dispersed by the Babylonians in 586 BC? In Jewish history before the birth of Christ we read about the Diaspora, which was Jews dispersed all over the known world. After 70 years, many returned under the leadership of Nehemiah and Ezra. "4 AD when Rome took authority from the Jews" ??? The Romans took that authority away much earlier than 4AD! Also 70AD did not create a wide spread dispersion of the Jews (many, but not all). IT was the revolt of Bar Kochba (spelling may be wrong) in 130is AD that caused the main dispersion that lasted until 1946. Although there has always been a remnant in the Land. MJH |
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7 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | EdB | 139328 | ||
MJH Babylonians kept a king from the line of David on the throne in Jerusalem all during the captivity. If we read the Esther we see Jews in Babylonian captivity were kept together. There was a dispersion of the Jews before Christ when the Assyrians carried off the ten northern tribe and dispersed them throughout their kingdom. However the Judah and Benjamin remain intact in Judah. If you look at the empires that conquered Israel you see their philosophy of handling the conquered people was completely different. The Assyrians that conquered Northern Israel spread the conquered people throughout their empire. Their idea was if you move the people out of familiar surroundings you lessen the chance of rebellion. They are the ones that moved pagans into Samaria and later brought Jewish priest in to teach the people thus mixing Judaism with paganism and why pure Jew hate the Samarians so much. 2 Kings 17:26-27 (NKJV) 26 So they spoke to the king of Assyria, saying, "The nations whom you have removed and placed in the cities of Samaria do not know the rituals of the God of the land; therefore He has sent lions among them, and indeed, they are killing them because they do not know the rituals of the God of the land." 27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, "Send there one of the priests whom you brought from there; let him go and dwell there, and let him teach them the rituals of the God of the land." Then the Babylonians they took people into captivity as seen in Daniel but as seen Esther the people stayed together plus 2 Chronicles and Jeremiah tell of the How Babylon kept a King of Israel in place. The Medo Persian were next and they actually restored the Jew back from Babylon to Israel but this isn’t the restoration spoken about in scripture short of Jeremiah that foretold the captivity would only be 70 years. Then the Greeks conquered the land but their idea was to assimilate their culture into the conquered land. To this day there was villages in India that speak Greek. The next was Rome and they ruled with an iron fist. Rebellions were crushed but for the most part the conquered people were kept as slaves in their own land to build the structures Rome is so famous for. However in 70 AD after many rebellions Rome finally decided to crush Israel once and for all. Of the Jews that weren’t crucified (because they ran out trees) they were shipped all over the Roman Empire. Your right there was another move to remove the Jew in 135Ad but for all intents and purposes 70AD is known as the great Diaspora of Jewish History. History records many things about the Diaspora but they do so from many perspectives. One a pro Palestine prospective which infers the Jew was out of the land longer than reality. The Jewish perspective that does not consider Shiloh as having come, therefore is not used to set dates. A secular perspective that sees Jews going into captivity but ignoring the importance of a King remaining on the throne. Christian perspective that relies on prophecy and the fulfillment of it by Jesus Christ. As I noted earlier Genesis 49:10 records Jacobs blessing which was prophetic that the scepter or rule would not pass from Judah’s hand until Shiloh came. Therefore we can not consider a dispersion before that time as being the one mentioned where the Jews will be returned. EdB |
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8 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | MJH | 139379 | ||
EdB, you bring up some interesting statements and since it has been a couple years since I studied these things, I will print your post and take some serious time to find your response to be correct or not . . . not that I doubt of course. Hee Hee. MJH |
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9 | Has the church replaced Israel? | Rom 11:25 | EdB | 139385 | ||
If you find something you question let me know. I use this information often so I want it correct. :-) EdB |
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