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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Baptism in the holy spirit? | Acts 19:1 | Searcher56 | 76867 | ||
1 Cor 13:13 "But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love" ... love is first; faith and hope are second 1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. I see the words "first", "second" and "then" ... which shows me tongues is last. It could be all four; including healings, helps and administrations are the least gifts. Paul spoke it (tongues) more than anyone else because he had been to many towns. I realize that he may have spoken Greek. But, he could have just as well spoke in the native tongue (too). I am not sure if Barabas or Silas spoke Greek. So when he spoke, they may not have understand him, anyway. Acts 15:8 may refer to Cornelius ... even tho it seems redundant. He already spoke to the same group in chapter 11. Nonetheless, there are only two conversions where tongues is seen - Cornelius and the Gentiles and the disciples of John Acts 8:15-19 doesn't indicate what Simon saw. But, when you became a Christian, was there an immediate change in you? Could others see it? That is what Simon saw, I believe. In Acts 2:38, "the gift of the Holy Spirit" is singular. I believe it is His indwelling us. There are gifts (plural) of the Spirit (1 Cor 12), whcih includes tongues. In 1 Corinthians 14, it seems like the whole church was speaking something, all (many) at the same time. Paul told them how to do it. Today, we have churches who have all (many) speak at the same time. They are in ERROR, too. "Of ALL the churches where Peter, John, Paul etc. preached and visited throughout their ministry, how many do you dare to suppose weren’t filled with people filled with the Holy Spirit following their “teacher’s” example of speaking in tongues?" ... After Pentecost ... did Peter or John speak, or even write about speaking in tongues. Searcher |
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2 | Baptism in the holy spirit? | Acts 19:1 | Taleb | 76906 | ||
Searcher, allow me to state at the offset, your “comeback” is well thought out and informative. I’ve never “noticed” the “first, second” etc. Thank you for pointing out those important facts. My “problem” lies with the concept that tongues are “known languages”. Here is a simple test I often use when I hear, or learn, that a word means “such and such”. It MOST ALWAYS works. I find other places where that same word is used and I read it using the word’s “definition”. It “should fit” otherwise something is most likely wrong. “Tongues” is one of those I “tested”. If “tongues” actually means “known languages” (and I understand how that conclusion is drawn -from Acts 2:11 where the Greek word, Strong’s 1258, Dialektos was used), WHY DIDN'T Luke use “Glossa” (Strong’s 1100)? By the way, do you have any idea which English word is derived from that Greek word dialektos? Yup, dialect. About that “test I used” – Let’s try it. We will use the “known language” definition in place of “tongues” to see if it holds the muster. Luke 16:24 uses the “Glossa” (Strong's 1100) word like most all the "tongues" in 1st Cor. Lazarus and the rich man had died. The rich man is in hell and asked, “… dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my known language.” OK, one from many more. James 3:6: “And the ‘known language’ is a fire … so is the ‘known language’ among our members.” Nope. I would say that “tongues means known language” doesn’t pass the test. And, Searcher, don’t forget the other Greek word translated “tongues”. Heteroglossos (Strong’s 2084) argues in favor of what you stated tongues means – speaking a foreign language. However, It is used only once, 1 Cor. 14:21. Whereas the next five (5) "tongues" in that chapter only uses Strong's 1100. The overall content of our response rings sadly true. Even after a couple thousand years, we, too often, still don’t “get it” right in Church. Really, Searcher, I DO appreciate your soul-searching, valid comments. And not ONLY on this thread. :) His Peace, Taleb |
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3 | Baptism in the holy spirit? | Acts 19:1 | sniper | 76909 | ||
Sorry for jumping in, but I can't help it. The problem with your test is this: The context of any conversation determines varitions in the meaning of a word. The different passages you have cited which use the word "tongue" have differing contexts. It is just the same as looking up an english word in the dictionary and seeing that it has several distinct definitions. The context of the conversation will reveal the meaning. It would be wrong to apply only one definition of that word to each situation in which it was used. The same goes for your test. You cannot apply only one definition to every use of the word, because as your test has demonstrated that would be silly. Please excuse my interruption of your discussion, Sniper |
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4 | Baptism in the holy spirit? | Acts 19:1 | Taleb | 76940 | ||
Sniper, my point was, and is, that Searcher's "definition of known languages" doesn't fit, because it really doesn't. I’ll reiterate the results of “my test” one more time, slightly changing my “terminology” to help convey the truth thereof. IF the term “tongues”, giving in the context of being “produced” by the Holy Spirit through any particular individual, actually means “known languages”, the Holy Spirit, who wants for us today to understand what HE meant then, WOULD only, and always, have used “dialektos” in each case, rather than “glossa”. Why? Because “dialektos” “means” a known language, while the other “glossa” offers too many possible “meanings” to be used as “evidence”. As a reminder, “dialektos” was used in Acts 2:6. (I stated Acts 2:11 before, but that is “the other tongue word, glossa”. (Whoops) This is the MAJOR verse used to “demonstrate” that ALL the other “tongues” ONLY and ALWAYS means what this one says about men hearing them speaking in “their own language”. Thanks for your input, and for pointing out how “silly” it was the first time through. :) Taleb |
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