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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Modes or Persons? | John 6:56 | Morant61 | 4940 | ||
Hi Sharp! Have you been arguing or debating? :-) I understand where you are coming from with your questions. The problem is that they don't prove that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are modes as opposed to three Persons with in a Trinity. Everything that can be said about the Father, can be said about the Son, can be said about the Holy Spirit (with the exception of the incarnation). I have no problem with Jesus being the first and the last and the Father being the first and the last, because they are both God. The only point we seem to disagree on is whether or not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only modes in which God operates, or three distinct, but equal persons within the Godhead. I have been honestly trying to deal with your questions. I would like to ask you to explain your view of John 14:23 for me. As a modalist, how can Jesus speak of 'we' when He says that the Father and the Son will come to dwell within a believer? If there is no plurality within the Godhead, there could be no we! I'm looking forward to your response. I may not be able to reply until later though, I am getting ready to go to bed. I have been up all night! God Bless, Tim Moran |
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2 | Modes or Persons? | John 6:56 | RevC | 4942 | ||
Tim take a look at this and give me your opinion! Thanks for your sweet spirit concerning this! God Bless. I Timothy 2:5 puts it, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. In John 10:30 Jesus said, I and my Father are one. Does that mean unity? Well, I ask if that was all he meant then why did the Jews pick up stones to stone him? v. 31 Jesus asks them why v. 32, and they answered him, because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God v. 33. They understood this as claiming to be God, not claiming to be in accordance with him. So if I and the Father are one means I am God, then he must be God the Father. Some Trinitarians have tried to draw attention to the neuter gender of the word one in this passage (Gk - hen), claiming that this means that they are one in unity. However, this is the same word used in passages such as Eph. 4:4 where it says that there is one Spirit, and no one would argue that this means only one in unity. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commanded the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Yet they routinely baptized only in Jesus' name.Either they were mistaken, or they understood the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost to be Jesus. Surely the apostles didn't disobey their Lord. I could give you scriptures to show that Jesus is indeed God, however Joe!, we already agree on that supposedly but here are a few that show that he is specifically the Father who is the only God, Mal 2:10; I Cor 8:6. 1. Jesus said that He would send the comforter to us John 16:7, but He also said the Father would send the comforter John 14:26. 2. The Father alone can draw men to God John 6:44 , yet Jesus said He would draw all men John 12:32. 3. Jesus will raise up all believers in the last day John 6:40, yet God the Father quickens gives life to the dead and will raise us up Romans 4:17 I Corinthians 6:14. 4. Christ is our sanctifier Ephesians 5:26, yet the Father sanctifies us Jude 1. We can easily understand all of this if we realize that Jesus has a dual nature. He is both Spirit and flesh, God and man, Father and Son. As our Lord said elsewhere, things I have spoken to you in figurative language an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father John 16:25. Or as Zechariah the prophet said, "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one" Zech. 14:9. |
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3 | Did One Mode Send the Other? | John 6:56 | Morant61 | 5006 | ||
Greetings RevC: I tried to send this yesterday, but my computer crashed! So, here we go again! You quote several passages here that say the same thing about the Father and the Son. I'm not going to go indepth into these passage, simply because we already agree about these passages. Trinitarians do not believe in three Gods. Therefore, anything that can be said about the nature of the Father (eternal, all-knowing, all-present, ect...) can also be said about the nature of Christ, since He is fully God. However, I would like to address the John 10 passage. This is an excellent passage regarding the debate that we are having. I agree with you that we should not press the neuter 'hen' too much. Most commentators believe that there is an indication here (based upon the neuter gender) that Jesus is talking about essential unity, not numerical unity. However, there is not enough linguistic evidence to press the point too much! However, I believe that the entire context of the passage illustrates my belief that the Father and the Son are co-equal members of the Trinity. Obviously, the Jews understood that Jesus was claiming to be God. They say so in John 10:33. However, there are also distinctions made between Christ and the Father in this passage. For instance, in John 10:36, Jesus says, "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" If Father, Son, and Holy Spirit only refer to offices or modes of operation within the Godhead, how can the Father set apart and send the Son? Then, notice in John 10:38 that Jesus wants them to "...know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." If modalism is true, how can the Father be 'in' the Son, and the Son 'in' the Father? 'In' is a preposition refering to location. I look forward to you response! God Bless, Tim Moran |
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4 | Did One Mode Send the Other? | John 6:56 | RevC | 5018 | ||
Tim this is a condensed version I hope it answers your questions. I will be giving the forum a break for a few days. I'll be on vacation. I'll be back May 16 greater than I." These passages are in the Book of John, the New Testament writer who more than any other identified Jesus as God and the Father It is wrong for anyone to suppose this plural usage to mean that Jesus is a separate person in the Godhead from the Father. However, it does indicate a distinction between the deity Father and humanity Son of Jesus Christ. The Son, who is visible, revealed the Father, who is invisible. Thus, Jesus said, "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also" John 8:19 "The Father hath not left me alone These verses of Scripture use the plural to express a consistent theme: Jesus is not just a man, but He is God also. This explains the dual nature of Jesus and reveals the oneness of God. What happens to Jesus after He ascends back to Heaven? Are there two Gods now? To me Trinitarian seems more like a corporation as opossed to one God.There is only one God, who is the Creator and Father of mankind Malachi 2:10. " human and Divine wills of Christ. The Bible does indicate that Jesus had a human will as well as the divine will. He prayed to the Father, saying, "Not my will, but thine, be done" Luke 22:42. John 6:38 shows the existence of two wills: He came not to do His own will (human will), but to do the Father's will the divine will. That Jesus had a human spirit seems evident when He spoke on the cross, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" Luke 23:46. Although it is difficult to distinguish between the divine and human natures of His spirit, some references seemingly focus upon the human aspect. For example Mark 8:12 Luke 2:40 Luke 10:21 John 11:33, John 13:21. John 10:38 Father refers to God Himself - God in all His deity. When we speak of the eternal Spirit of God, we mean God Himself, the Father. God the Father, therefore, is a perfectly acceptable and biblical phrase to use for God Titus 1:4. However, the Bible does not use the term "God the Son" even one time. It is not a correct term because the Son of God refers to the humanity of Jesus Christ. The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God Luke 1:35. Son of God may refer solely to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh - that is, deity in the human nature. Son of God never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use the term "Son" correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms "Son of God," "Son of man," and "Son" are appropriate and biblical. However, the term "God the Son" is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural. The Son of God is not a separate person in the Godhead, but the physical expression of the one God. The Son is "the image of the invisible God" Colossians 1:13-15and "the express image of His God's person" Hebrews 1:2-3. Just as a signature stamp leaves an exact likeness on paper, or just as a seal leaves an exact impression when pressed in wax, so the Son of God is the exact expression of the Spirit of God in flesh. Man could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that man could see and know Him. Many other verses of Scripture reveal that we can only use the term "Son of God" correctly when it includes the humanity of Jesus. For example, the Son was made of a woman Galatians 4:4, the Son was begotten John 3:16, the Son was born Matthew 1:21-23; Luke 1:35, the Son did not know the hour of the Second Coming Mark 13:32 MY TURN not only did the Sonship have a beginning, but it will, in at least one sense, have an ending. This is evident from I Corinthians 15:23-28. In particular, verse 24 says, "Then cometh the end, when he Christ shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father…" Verse 28 says, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto that God may be all in all." This verse of Scripture is impossible to explain if one thinks of a "God the Son" who is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father. But it is easily explained if we realize that "Son of God" refers to a specific role that God temporarily assumed for the purpose of redemption. When the reasons for the Sonship cease to exist, God Jesus will cease acting in His role as Son, and the Sonship will be submerged back into the greatness of God, who will return to His original role as Father, Creator, and Ruler of all. Ephesians 5:27 describes this same scene in different terms. |
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