Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | John 15:2, "cut off" or "lift up"? | John 15:2 | New Creature | 70483 | ||
Parable Bruce Wilkenson like all other eternal security advocates have no choice but to attempt to revise the clear rendering of John 15:2 and 6. If "lifts up" was intended as what was meant by "airo" then I would think that at least one translation would have made the necessary adjustment. The fact is not a single translation renders "airo" in John 15 as "lifts up" Here is how various translations have worded the verses in John 15 which you mention. Different Bible Versions rendering of John 15:2 and 15:6 King James Version - taken away in verse 2 and cast forth in verse 6 Amplifed Version - cuts away in verse 2 and thrown out in verse 6 New American Standard Version - takes away in verse 2, and thrown away in verse 6 NIV Version - cuts off in verse 2, and thrown away in verse 6 Contemporary English Version - cuts away in verse 2 and thrown away in verse 6 New King James Version - takes away in verse 2 and cast out in verse 6 The Living Bible Translation - lops off verse 2 and thrown away in verse 6 Revised Standard Version - takes away in verse 2 and cast forth in verse 6 Todays English Version – breaks off in verse 2 and thrown out in verse 6 Gideons International Bible Version - cuts off in verse 2 and thrown away in verse 6 Weymouth Translation – takes away verse 2 and thrown away verse 6 Youngs Literal Translation – take it away verse 2 and cast forth verse 6 Darby – takes it away verse 2 and cast out verse 6 World English Bible – takes away verse 2 and thrown out verse 6 Websters Bible – taketh away verse 2 and cast forth verse 6 Basic English Bible – takes away verse 2 and becomes dead verse 6 J.B.Phillips New Testament Version - removes in verse 2 and broken off in verse 6 The Jerusalem Bible Version - cuts away in verse 2 and thrown away in verse 6 The Greek word for take in John 15:2 is "airo", which means "to lift, (see Gen. 40:19 N.I.V. - "Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head") carry, take up or away. It is also use in John 1:29 of Christ as "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world," and the same use of the word can be found in 1 Cor. 5:2 which reads: "And ye are puffed up, and have not rather morned, that he that has done this deed might be taken away from among you." (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words) In John 15:2 the word away is used in connection with various verbs such as "take away" and is translated "away with" implying a forcible removal for the purpose of putting to death. (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary Of Old And New Testament Words) In John 15:2 it should be noticed, that there is mentioned two different types of branches - 1) those that do not bear fruit 2) those that bear fruit. Of type number 1 it is said that these fruitless branches are taken away. Only of branch type 2 is there made mention of pruning to make it healthier. For more info on what becomes of the fruitless branches you need only look at verse 6. These fruitless branches that were taken away, or as verse 6 says "cast forth" have become lifeless and withered. There is no longer any sap or life in them. The only thing these dead withered branches are good for is as verse 6 says to be burned. That doesn't sound like being lifted up or supported to me. It is only when men twist the clear teachings of Scripture around that they could possibly say "airo" in this instance could possibly mean "lift up" Careful study of the text will plainly reveal that it says no such thing! Peace New Creature |
||||||
2 | John 15:2, "cut off" or "lift up"? | John 15:2 | BradK | 70550 | ||
Hello New Creature, I've noted and considered your response. Just to clarify, I'm only offering an observation and am well aware that none of the translations render "airo" as "lift up". As I'm not a Greek scholar or translator, my motive is not to question the translations :-) With that understanding, I do find it of interest to note that the primary and literal meaning of "airo" is "to raise up","elevate","lift up". Of the 102 occurences, the AV only translates "lift up" 4 times. This has given me opportunity for further study. I believe Wilkinsons' exposition of John 15 merits further consideration. He writes,"First, a clearer translation of the Greek word 'airo', rendered in John 15 as 'take away' would be 'take up'or 'lift up'. We find accurate renderings of 'airo', for example in Matt.14:20,27:32, and John 1:29." As Wilkinson further states,"'Lifts up' suggest an image of a vinedresser leaning over to lift up a branch. But why? When the branches fall into the dirt, God doesn't throw them away or abandon them. He lifts them up, cleans them off, and helps them flourish again." You say,"It is only when men twist the clear teachings of Scripture around that they could possibly say "airo" in this instance could possibly mean "lift up" Careful study of the text will plainly reveal that it says no such thing!" I do not honestly believe it a matter of "scripture twisting", but seeing the text differently. In seeking clarification of a text by giving due consideration to various renderings of a word, are we not doing "careful study?" The "careful study" of the text also offers some gems and truths for us to behold. Speaking the Truth In Love, BradK |
||||||
3 | John 15:2, "cut off" or "lift up"? | John 15:2 | New Creature | 70556 | ||
BradK I respect your thoughts on this. The problem as I see it with saying "airo" in John 15 means "lift up" as some claim is that it just doesn't mesh in this text. The reason "lift up" appears as an impossible substitution for the Greek "airo" is mainly due to what the following verses say. Why if these branches are lifted up, as some claim, do we see them becoming withered, and gathered to be burned in verse 6? Can you provide an answer? Grace and peace New Creature |
||||||