Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101426 | ||
I wanted to thank you for the time, effort, consideration, and thoughtfulness that you have put into your answers to this question. I can tell that you, too, are seeking to understand the truth as best as we can. I especially appreciate that you are stressing the importance of context. The more I study my Bible (and the less I find I know), the more important that context becomes. If I understand your answer correctly, you are advocating a principle, not only of considering context, but of considering that not everything written in the Bible is written directly for us. And you have cited excellent examples to show where we should determine who is speaking, to whom, and the relevance of whether what is being said applies to all persons at all times. This technique is close to what I suppose the Bible scholars call "dispensationalism" - that God deals with different people in different times in different ways. This method of interpretation can certainly seem to be helpful. It allows us to, though you may not like the term, "pick and choose" what parts of the Bible apply to us and what parts do not. For instance, I don't see many Christians taking a lamb to the church on Sunday morning to be sacrificed at the altar. Why not? Because a thorough study of the scriptures seems to support that the old sacrificial system has been done away with and, as Hebrews says, there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. So, in this particular case, it would seem that the scriptures themselves support that God's methods change over time. The signs that Jesus lists in Mark 16 become a little sticker don't they? I wouldn't have much opposition if I said that an animal sacrifice is no longer necessary (although those of Judaism would probably disagree with me). But if I start to say that the signs that Jesus gave are no longer applicable to the church, then my assertion becomes much more tenuous because: 1. Christians claim to follow Christ and His teachings, YET they themselves are picking and choosing WHICH of His teachings apply to them and which ones don't. 2. And, to the best of my knowledge, I don't recall Jesus saying that all of these signs were only for a particular group (other than believers). It would be similar if I claimed to be a follower of Buddha but did not believe that ALL of his teachings applied to me. Most Christians operate under some form of this "a la carte" Christianity. I am not saying that it is right nor wrong to do this. But I am curious as to WHY Christians do what they do. After all, most Christians claim to follow the teachings of their leader. But if pressed about this (as in Mark 16), many (if not most) of the Christians in the circles that I travel would say, "Yes, that is what Christ taught but it doesn't apply to me." So my question is, how can we claim that we are followers of Christ if we do not follow His clear teaching? What gives the disciples the right to determine which teachings of their teacher apply to them and which ones don't? That, my friend, is where I am at. I am looking at the specific teachings of Jesus and trying to determine, as best I can, whether or not I should even wear the name of Christian and say that I believe in Jesus. It is difficult for me to say that Jesus is my Lord if I am not willing to do what He says. It is difficult for me to say that He taught the truth if I am willing (and sometimes eager) to relegate His truths to other people and other time periods. But in the end, I find that I have to do this or His teachings make no sense. For instance, at one point Jesus sends out His disciples ONLY to the house of Israel. They are to take His gospel to the Jews only. Is this His true command? Certainly. But He seems to revise this command later in Matthew 28 when He gives out the great comission, doesn't He? There, His disciples are told to go into all the world. This "change" is substantiated by the scriptures themselves. Many of the other teachings of Christ are much more ambiguous. Are Christians on shakey ground when they claim to believe in Jesus Christ but either limit or dismiss some of His teachings? I am not questioning Christ's person at this point. But I am curious to what extent I can call myself a Christian if I disregard the clear teachings of the one I claim to follow. seeking4truth |
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2 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | Ken hepting | 101573 | ||
Are Christians on shakey ground when they claim to believe in Jesus Christ but either limit or dismiss some of His teachings? I am not questioning Christ's person at this point. But I am curious to what extent I can call myself a Christian if I disregard the clear teachings of the one I claim to follow.......seeking4truth Did you follow this one: John 3:7 (NASB) "...... 'You must be born again.' |
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3 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101582 | ||
Ken, ***Did you follow this one: John 3:7 (NASB) "...... 'You must be born again.' Yes, I thought I did. But I also found this one: Matthew 5:48 - "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Think being born again is hard, try this one. Ouch. Sorry, no can do. Yet it is Jesus' imperative command, isn't it? seeking4truth |
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4 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | Ken hepting | 101606 | ||
Matthew 5:48 - "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Think being born again is hard, try this one. Ouch. Sorry, no can do. Yet it is Jesus' imperative command, isn't it? seeking4truth You place that before the right man because that IS what the journey in Christ is all about. That's the path of righteousness AFTER you are born again. If it wasn't attainable Jesus would never have stated it. If you say, "Father I want to know you" be prepared for the journey that will take you home to Father's house. . It's sometimes called "Bringing son's into Glory" per: Hebrews 2:10 (NASB) For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. We will be perfected as He [Jesus the MAN] was or we won't be the "Church without spot or wrinkle" who He comes for.. "that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless". ...Ephes. 5:27 (NASB) No denominational thing here except to get rid of it. Lets be about ...Becoming. |
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5 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | Aixen7z4 | 101615 | ||
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. |
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6 | Insufficient grace? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101625 | ||
Good verses, Aixen. Can I probe a little bit? (I promise to be gentle.) When I was 12, I was presented the "Roman Road." I would suspect that most of the folks on this forum are familiar with this formula for evangelism. So as I began to understand that my sin and my being a sinner separated me from a holy God, I naturally asked questions. It went sort of like this: "My sin separated me from God because He is holy and pure?" YES, THAT'S RIGHT. "So how do I get myself clean so that I too am holy and pure like God." SON, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CLEAN YOURSELF FROM SIN. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. THERE IS ONLY ONE THING THAT CAN CLEAN YOU FROM SIN - THE BLOOD OF JESUS. "But Pastor, don't I have to clean up my act before I can come to Jesus?" NO, SON, YOU CAN'T CLEAN YOURSELF. ALL OF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS AS FILTHY RAGS IN GOD'S SIGHT. ONLY JESUS BLOOD CAN CLEAN YOU. "Let me see if I understand: God is perfectly holy and righteous. I am a sinner and unclean. There is not ONE thing that I can do to make myself clean before God. All I can do is to trust Jesus?" THAT'S RIGHT, SON. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU - IT'S ABOUT JESUS. YOU TRUST JESUS AND HE WILL PURIFY YOU. YOUR SINS WILL BE WHITER THAN SNOW. (seeking4truth trusts in Jesus as Lord and Savior) "Wow, Pastor, Jesus has washed me whiter than snow?" THAT'S RIGHT. "Now what do I do?" NOW, SON, YOU NEED TO KEEP YOURSELF CLEAN BY NOT SINNING AND IF YOU SIN, YOU GET YOURSELF CLEANED UP THROUGH CONFESSION AND YOU NEED TO PURIFY YOURSELF AND YOU NEED TO LIVE HOLY AND YOU NEED TO SANCTIFY YOURSELF AND YOU NEED TO... If I could go back 30 years, I would say, "Wait a minute, Pastor, BEFORE I came to Jesus, it was all about HIM and what HE has done. Now that I have come to Jesus, why is it all about me and what *I* must do?" Funny, evangelicals tell folks that they can't possible make themselves pure enough to be acceptable to God or to enter His kingdom. "It is finished!" we say. But after "conversion", the focus dynamically shifts 180 degrees to our standing being completely dependent upon what WE do or don't do. To me, this effectively means that the grace (a gift of God) that is sufficient to initially save us is powerless to keep us clean and pure before God AFTER we become saved. It would seem that "sinners" are saved by grace but that "saints" are perfected (purified) by works. Something smells fishy and fleshly to me. Any thoughts? seeking4truth |
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7 | Insufficient grace? | Luke 14:26 | justme | 101631 | ||
seeking4truth: I hope you won't mind if I drop in on your dialogue. I hope not. I have used the Romans Road off and on for many years. The Four Spiritual Laws are another tool that has been used by many as well. I think all these "tools" are a way of helping Christians get started sharing Christ with others. I firmly believe that after one gets some maturity in Christ, we should be able to share Christ from a personally chosen way that fits each of as regenerated born again believers. I admit sadly, that few get to this point in the walk as Christians. A long time ago I felt these "canned testimonies" were rather phoney, and ineffective as well. The very disturbing problem as I see it is even if someone gets a person to agree to make Jesus Lord, who then is going to disciple this new convert? Are we to just let this new "seed" to be plucked up and out by satan? Perhaps as much emphases should be placed on the need to be able do discipleship as to witnessing? I have wondered if we said don't introduce anyone to Christ unless you are willing to either disciple or get someone else to keep this "new creation in Christ" growing. Any thoughts? Blessings. justme |
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8 | Insufficient grace? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101632 | ||
Justme, ***"I have wondered if we said don't introduce anyone to Christ unless you are willing to either disciple or get someone else to keep this "new creation in Christ" growing. Any thoughts?" Yessir, I have a thought (I'm alotted one per week): You are dangerously close to agreeing with me. Beware! :) I didn't go into it in my last tirade, but a Bible was slapped into my hands without: 1. Anyone offering me a place to start. 2. Anyone showing me a few good principles of Bible study. 3. Anyone giving me any sort of history as to how we got the Bible. 4. Anyone helping me to understand the differences between the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New. 5. Anyone helping me to learn to compare scripture with scripture. 6. Anyone helping me to understand HOW the Holy Spirit teaches us from God's Word. 7. Anyone showing me what the proper role is concerning God's written Word in my life. I was simply a number by which to judge the effectiveness of a church's VBS program. That's enough for now. I don't want to lay too much blame at "Anyone's" feet. I was simply told to read the Bible. To me at that age, it was analogous to handy me a Chilton's Repair Manual and telling me to read it in order to repair a car. I had no context of where to begin and where to go. And the Elizabethian English made it that much harder. So your post is most welcome to me, justme. We have a similar heartbeat. "People want to know that you care before they will care what you know." seeking4truth |
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