Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | victorA | 122617 | ||
I would have to answer that Jesus would not be the “least” or “lesser” one in the kingdom of the heavens but the “greatest” one resurrected, becoming the King of his heavenly kingdom. In these two accounts you mention, Jesus shows us something that many completely miss, that John the Baptizer will not be in the heavenly Kingdom, since a lesser one there is greater than John. John prepared the way for Jesus, but his (John's) death occurs before Christ sealed the covenant, or agreement, with his disciples to be corulers with him in his Kingdom. That is why Jesus says that John will not be in the heavenly Kingdom. John will instead be fully rewarded as faithful but be an earthly subject of that Kingdom as well will David and all the other faithful servants of God that died before Pentecost. This was a special period of opportunity that had arrived with Jesus’ coming to earth and giving his life a ransom on behalf of mankind. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John.” (Mt 11:10-13) Some going to heaven may have been prominent in the congregation, like the apostles, and others less so, but they are all Jesus’ spiritual brothers. (Luke 16:10; 1 Corinthians 15:9; Ephesians 3:8; Hebrews 8:11) So, even if some seemed insignificant on earth, they were his brothers and should have been treated accordingly. You see, God’s Word leaves us with no doubt that one of God’s outstanding qualities is justice. Also, righteousness is the very foundation of his throne. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 89:14) His being just and righteous, however, does not obligate him to bestow identical favors upon all of his intelligent creatures. For example, he created some beings as spirit creatures, angels, who are far superior to humans. Nor does he reward all of his faithful earthly creatures in the same way. Thus Jesus said those words regarding John the Baptizer that “the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.” |
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2 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | Zsuzsi | 122643 | ||
Hi VictorA, Hmm, your opinion is very interesting...! Your starting point is the same as mine but I think have to disagree with your conclusion: maybe that is what you call 'justice' but to me it certainly isn't! Did Moses, or John the Baptist, or you or me decide for ourselves whether we wanted to be born BC or AC? I doubt... Does God then privilige some people by causing them to be born AC? Ezekiel 33:20 "Yet, O house of Israel, you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' But I will judge each of you according to his own ways." So He will judge according to our own ways ('ways' is not the same as 'works'), not whether He chose us to be born BC or AC... Personally I think it cannot 'fully rewarding' for faithful servants of God like John the Baptist or David that they would become 'earthly subjects' to 'co-heirs' with Christ, simply because of the date of their birth... I believe Jesus died to save the whole world, not just the people who come after Him; I do not like the idea of 'limiting' God to our earthly way of looking at time. Also, please see Luke 13:28 and Matt 8:11: Jesus did say that the old prophets would enter the Kingdom: Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out." Matthew 8:11: "I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." I have found no direct Biblical reference stating that the people born before Christ would not enter the Kingdom or that they would be subject to the people who have lived after Christ - and forming additional assumptions is usually not the best idea. This is one of the reasons why I think that this interpretation is maybe mistaken altogether... God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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3 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | victorA | 122661 | ||
Hello Zsuzsi, You say that my starting point is the same as mine that Jesus isn’t the lesser one in the Kingdom? And in your first post on this point you say, ((Do you think that Jesus could have been referring to Himself by "the least in the kingdom of God" in Luke 7:28/Matt 11:11? Personally do I believe He was, although I read many other interpretations which are not even similar to mine…)) So I don’t understand which you are say that you agree with. Then you tell me, ((but I think have to disagree with your conclusion: maybe that is what you call 'justice' but to me it certainly isn't! Did Moses, or John the Baptist, or you or me decide for ourselves whether we wanted to be born BC or AC? I doubt... Does God then privilige some people by causing them to be born AC? )) You do make a good point here and I agree it might seem unjust to us but we (mankind, in particular Adam) made things turn out the way they have). That’s the reason we see human suffering today. Is it God’s will for man to suffer? I believe not because man disobeyed and we’re Adam’s offspring. But to correct matters, time is allowed to show Satan’s assertion false once and for all time. Satan told Eve that she should decide for herself what is right and so she did. The result for both her but especially Adam’s choice is what has come about. God’s provision for rectifying this was his sending his Son to earth as a ransom for Adam’s sin so mankind could be redeemed back to God. God made the earth for man to live on forever and never dieing. Involved in this arrangement was not only Christ’s ransom but also his kingdom. Some humans have the special priviledge of ruling in heaven over the earth, but the vast majority will fulfill God’s purpose for the earth by populating it forever in perfection. ((Ezekiel 33:20 "Yet, O house of Israel, you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' But I will judge each of you according to his own ways.")) Again, God’s reward of living on earth will fulfill man’s every desire, since man was made to live on the earth God’s original purpose for creating man. God created angels to live in heaven. So He will judge according to our own ways ('ways' is not the same as 'works'), not whether He chose us to be born BC or AC... ((Personally I think it cannot 'fully rewarding' for faithful servants of God like John the Baptist or David that they would become 'earthly subjects' to 'co-heirs' with Christ, simply because of the date of their birth... I believe Jesus died to save the whole world, not just the people who come after Him; I do not like the idea of 'limiting' God to our earthly way of looking at time. )) ((Also, please see Luke 13:28 and Matt 8:11: Jesus did say that the old prophets would enter the Kingdom: Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out." Matthew 8:11: "I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.")) I definitely see where you are coming from and I know you and I both want all the scriptures to stand harmoniously. I’ll begin with John 3:13, where it says that no man has gone to heaven, “13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven,” and then says that Jesus would go to heaven so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life in verse 15. Those were Jesus’ words in the year 30 (A.D.) when he told Nicodemus that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were not in heaven. (more) |
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4 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | victorA | 122663 | ||
Three years later, on the day of Pentecost of the year 33, the apostle Peter said that the descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, namely, King David, had not ascended to heaven and so was not in any kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God in Acts 2:34, “Actually David did not ascend to the heavens,”. Peter said that after Jesus made the statement about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Matthew 8:11 at the time of healing the servant of a Roman centurion. So those three patriarchs could not be in the Kingdom class as joint heirs with the Lord Jesus Christ. They were his ancestors, who preceded him by more than seventeen hundred years. It is therefore evident so the scriptures harmonize, that in Matthew 8:11 Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob figuratively. On the occasion when Abraham offered up his son Isaac, Abraham would figuratively represented Jehovah God and Isaac represented God’s only-begotten Son Jesus Christ, who was offered up in sacrifice. Accordingly Jacob represented the spiritual Christian congregation, the “kingdom of the heavens” class; for, just as the congregation gets life through Jesus Christ, so Jacob got life from Abraham through Isaac. From this standpoint Abraham, Isaac and Jacob mentioned together in Jesus’ illustration would picture the great theocratic kingdom or government, in which Jehovah is the Great Theocrat, Jesus Christ is his anointed representative King, and the faithful, victorious Christian congregation that Revelation 7:4 and Rev. 14:3 numbers as 144,000 are the members of the body of Christ as joint heirs in the Kingdom. When this Christian congregation was founded on the day of Pentecost, its spirit-anointed members were made Christ’s joint heirs and were put in line for a place in the heavenly kingdom, to recline there at the spiritual table with the Greater Abraham and the Greater Isaac. The natural or fleshly Jews of the nation of Israel claimed to be the “sons of the kingdom” or the prospective members of God’s kingdom. From the day of Pentecost forward they saw the beginning and the gradual development of this theocratic arrangement, but because of their lack of faith in Christ they were not in it. Hence, as Jesus said (Matt. 8:12): “The sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.” For this reason it became necessary that many Gentiles (non-Jews), like the Roman centurion whose faith brought a miraculous cure by Jesus, should come “from eastern parts and western parts,” from all around the earth, to become dedicated, baptized Christians. Thus they could help make up the full number of the Kingdom class. For faithfulness to the death these converted Gentiles are resurrected to heavenly life to recline at the heavenly table, as it were, with Jehovah God and Jesus Christ “in the kingdom of the heavens.” When understood this way, Matthew 8:11 agrees with Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:11: “Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.” Since Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not greater than John, they will not be literally in the kingdom of the heavens. Jesus used them only as an illustration of those who will actually be in it. Wow, you picked a deep subject, a great subject a key to understanding the Kingdom of God. |
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5 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | Zsuzsi | 122669 | ||
Hello VictorA, Yes, WOW... It is a really deep topic! And I do not mean to offend you in any way, but I think I have to respectfully disagree with you about many of the points you make... "Some humans have the special priviledge of ruling in heaven over the earth, but the vast majority will fulfill God’s purpose for the earth by populating it forever in perfection." Do you have any Biblical reference for this? 1Cor 6:2: says, "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?" "Saint" is most often used for 'godly people', both in the OT and the NT... "Again, God’s reward of living on earth will fulfill man’s every desire, since man was made to live on the earth God’s original purpose for creating man. God created angels to live in heaven." Agreed about the creation part. But immortality and freedom from suffering and complete liberation from sin and temptation are also part of all men's desires (at least part of mine, lol) - only heaven promises those to people. I call the 'perfect world' which is to come 'heaven'. Also, please note that Jesus said that people who get to heaven will be like angels (Matt 22:30, Mark 12:25, Luke 20:36). So I doubt that they will reproduce etc... "King David, had not ascended to heaven and so was not in any kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God in Acts 2:34, “Actually David did not ascend to the heavens,”" NO! I believe 'ascended to heaven' here means the physical ascension of Jesus, which David obviously did not do. (The Greek "anabaino" means: 'ascend, to go up to, rise, mount, be borne up, spring up') Reading the whole verse and the exact wording of Acts 2:34 in the NASB, "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND," - to me this means that Jesus was more than David, not that David was not going to get to heaven at all! "...in Matthew 8:11 Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob figuratively..." Well, Isaac didn't actually die... Jesus did. But anyway, even if I do accept your argument about this, I still have doubts about Luke 13:28, where He does clearly mention 'all the prophets' - however we look at it! Also see Rev 18:20, about 'saints' and 'prophets' getting to heaven. Please read my replies to Angel (JCrichton) and Emmaus to see what I believe this passage really means. Your viewpoint is a completely new one for me, actually; I have seen many different interpretations of this passage and of the Kingdom in general, but among all those there is none like yours! I think I'll read Revelations again tonight, or at least parts of it, and pray about this... I encourage you also to do so. Will get back to you tomorrow. Sincerely yours in Christ, Zsuzsi |
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6 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | victorA | 122672 | ||
Hello again, It's really funny you tell me about reading Revelation again tonight! I read the entire New Testament every two months or so and just this morning read the first two chapters of Revelation! What a coincidence. Thank you for your kind remarks even if they are different and I do have several questions for you in Revelation if you would like one or two as John's writing are among my favorite. The first verse is my question. Would you write to me all your thoughts on this verse alone? I would like your thoughts alone though. |
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7 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | Zsuzsi | 122688 | ||
Hi VictorA, I suggested a reading into Revelations because that is one of the most obvious things to read when we want to learn about the kingdom of God and the end of the times... :-) I read the entire book last night, actually, and also prayed; I honestly did my best to see things from your point of view but I am still arriving at paradoxical questions. I think we need a very intimate relationship with the Lord before we can understand these prophecies as they were meant to be understood, just like in the case of the OT books of the prophets. It is really "solid food", to put it that way: no wonder why He fed the people milk instead in His parables! But I do hope He comes soon. Come, Lord Jesus... (Rev 22:20) And yes, sure, we can discuss many things about Revelations if you have questions - I love this book too: it's scary yet beautiful. To start with, I'll post my thoughts about the very first verse, as you asked; look up Rev 1:1. Yours in Christ, Zsuzsi |
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8 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | Emmaus | 122690 | ||
Zsuzsi, One reason that you find victorA's correspondences a little different is that they tend to reflect the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses or The Watchtower Society, which does not belive in the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus or that the Holy Spirit is a person. Emmaus |
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9 | "Least in the kingdom of God"? | Matt 11:11 | Zsuzsi | 122698 | ||
Emmaus, You might be right. Yet, seeking the Truth I normally attempt to consider all points of view, and take all uncertain issues directly to the Lord in prayer. His answers are usually fast and clear enough - just as in this case. A young person like me, in such a media- and money-centered society, can only hold onto the teaching that comes directly from Him. So He has the last word. :-) Psalm 119 is one of my favorites: "How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word. I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands. I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. Praise be to you, O LORD; teach me your decrees." Psalm 119:9-12 Thanks for the comment, though. :-) God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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