Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Should Christians practice nonresistance | Lev 26:6 | EdB | 16027 | ||
Sir Pent I have hesitated answering your statement in light of the events of yesterday 9/11/01. It is with a heavy heart I even venture near it, and I only do so because I think this topic may be more relevant as we see event unfold in the days ahead. Think about what you said. ”I find it inconsistent to support the taking of human life for one reason (capital punishment), and oppose it for another (abortion).” What your saying here is God is inconsistent and you don’t agree. It was God that gave value to human life “thou shall not kill” not you or I or our feelings. It was also God that said if one is found guilty of certain crimes he was to be executed. Again God did not consult anyone else’s feelings on the matter, god didn’t need to He is God. When we take God’s law and interpret or apply it different than God prescribed it, then we are saying, “God, you don’t know what your talking about and we are going to run things”. Then you said, “I also agree with Brian G. when he says, "When we begin accepting the destruction of life from one perspective, then it becomes easier to end life from other perspectives. The different acceptable reasons for destroying life begin to feed upon each other." Killing is desensitizing.” Again you have us establishing perspective, and our sensitivities. It was God’s perspective not ours to forbid murder. It was because of God and His perspective that we view human life the way we do. It was also God’s perspective that said if a person refuses to live within these boundaries he (the criminal) then must forfeit his life. You think your flesh had sensitivities about killing someone? You were born with a sin nature, the same as Cain, you could kill in a minute if it hadn’t been for the sensitivities you developed from God’s law. Then your bold enough to say it goes against my sensitivities to execute someone found in violation of God’s law. Excuse me! Your whole argument is based on human feelings, perspectives and sensitivities. My friend that is humanism, and exactly the kind that is invading the church today. Let God be the standard. Let God be our perspective, let God mold our sensitivities. You said all the execution laws are in the Old Testament, your right and so are all the thou shall not kill, steal and lie. Again the law carries two aspects: Sin, rebellion against it, which is rebellion against God and carries spiritual penalties and societal, which is crime against society, which carries physical punishment. Jesus did not come to change the law but to fulfill it. He did not eliminate it. Jesus came to reconcile us to God when we sin, to restore us spiritually. However His death did not effect the law as far as it’s hold on society and the physical aspects of life. No where is there any teaching of the elimination of execution for crimes that prescribed such. Lastly to put execution in the same class as abortion is an insult to every child that was murdered for convenience and profit. Abortion is the taking of the life by murder of an innocent unborn child. Execution is the is forfeiture of life by someone that we refused to live by God’s standards. |
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2 | Should Christians practice nonresistance | Lev 26:6 | Sir Pent | 16051 | ||
Dear EdB, I am also enorously saddened by the tragic events of yesturday (9-11-01). I pray that this will be one of those cases where our enemies meant it for bad, but that God will bring about good as a result. I pray that the families of those who were killed will be comforted, and have a greater sense of their need for God. I also pray for the people who orchestrated this outrageous violence, that there hearts will be changed as a result of all of the pain that they have caused. For if their hearts do not turn to God, then they await a punishment for eternity that is worse than anything which they can even imagine. As for the post which you are responding to, it seems that I must have been unclear in my message, for which I apologize. I BELIEVE GOD IS COMPLETELY CONSISTENT. This is a belief, which is of great importance to me, and I want to make sure that it is not misunderstood. God is the same yesturday, today, and tommorrow. "Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." (James 1:17) There is also a second important belief which seems to have been unclear. I BELIEVE THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT IS STILL TRUE. I know that Jesus did not abolish the Old Testament, and I am not trying to say that at all. Nor am I saying that I am the authority to determine what part of scripture is true (please go back and read my post "May I share a simple story to help out", it is the one about the farmer and his 10 fields). I must admit that at first I was a little hurt by this last post of yours. But as I went back and looked at all of your posts to me in the past, I noticed that there aren't very many. You disliked my user id, which you mentioned a couple times, and you did like the farmer story mentioned above. Other than that, I saw very little interaction. I can only assume that you and I have somewhat different interests in threads. I therefore, am guessing that perhaps you have not read enough of my posts to get a clear picture of my beliefs. I would encourage you to take a look at some of them, to get a better idea of what my theology truly is, instead of making very large and incorrect assumptions and then posting them. I would particularly direct you to my thread "How inspired is the NASB" to see my high respect for the authority of scripture. Finally, I would like to point out that my views on capital punishment are based primarily in scripture, and only augmented by my own logic and feelings. My previous post "death penalty in OT is good" explains why I believe that a fundamental change has occurred (not in God, but in the world itself). In that post I refer to much scripture including: Exodus 19:10-13, 1 Samuel 15, 1 Peter 3:19, Hebrews 9:27, Acts 5:1-10, Acts 12:21-23. P.S. I regret that I felt compelled to continue posting to this thread after you attempted to close it, Nolan, but I wanted to clear up the confusion that EdB seemed to have about my position. |
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3 | Should Christians practice nonresistance | Lev 26:6 | EdB | 16055 | ||
Sir Pent Forgive my bluntness but unless I am reading a different thread you did say it was inconsistent to be against abortion and be for the death penalty yet that is exactly God’s position. He said thou shall not kill and yet prescribed a death penalty for those caught in adultery. By saying what you said isn’t that indirectly saying you judge God as being inconsistent? I’m not trying to put you on the spot or be belligerent here, but I am trying to make a point. People’s view of the death penalty is based on their sensitivities and not on the word of God. We hold life dear not because it has any intrinsic value (other than to us) :-) but rather because God says it has value. What I find to be the problem is we arel willing use God’s standard to put value on life but we refuse to use God’s standard to set penalties for crime. I’m not real sure what point your making about reading all you past post and whether I responded to them or not. And I’m not real sure what me liking or disliking your id has to do with this conversation. I apologize to you for anything I have said that offended you. I was not attacking you but rather the defense you presented of your position on execution. You may be the most God fearing person alive for all I know and I pray you are. However the position of comparing abortion and execution as you stated and to which I responded to, to me was in direct opposition to the truth found in God. I pray we are and remain brothers in Christ, and your right I did enjoy and in fact used the example you gave of the 10 fields. Again I was not questioning your Christian walk, I was questioning your support of abolishment of the execution for the reasons you stated. Ed |
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4 | Should Christians practice nonresistance | Lev 26:6 | Sir Pent | 16063 | ||
Dear EdB, There is a simple misunderstanding here. You believe that God's position is against abortion, and for the death penalty. Therefore, my statement that those positions are inconsistent implies to you that I believe God to be inconsistent. I can understand where you are coming from. The problem is that you don't seem to understand where I am coming from. I do not imply that God is inconsistent, because I do not believe that God is for the death penalty (at least to be carried out by humans) any more. Let me begin by granting that it is obviously scriptural that God supported the death penalty in the Old Testament (just like He supported the sacrifice system, and many dietary laws). We would all agree that after Christ the sacrifices of animals are no longer appropriate (not because God changed, but because the system changed). We would probably all agree that it is no longer a sin to eat pork (see Peter's vision of the sheet and animals in Acts). This also is not because God changed, but because the system changed. I tried to explain (in my post "death penalty in OT is good") that in a similar way, there has been a fundamental change in the system (not in God) that has caused the death penalty to no longer be appropriate for humans to commit. I think that this whole misunderstanding comes down to the fact that you are assuming (based on scripture of course) that God and you have the same view of capital punishment. What I am trying to communicate is that I believe this assumption to be incorrect, and I think that a good biblical case could be made that God is now against the death penalty. I have enjoyed many of your posts in the past (in fact I tried to keep your "using company computers" post alive). We seem to agree much more than we disagree (ie. the "who made God" thread and the "why is the word selah in the Bible" thread). I look forward to learning together with you on this forum in the future, with hopefully a greater understanding of each other. |
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5 | Should Christians practice nonresistance | Lev 26:6 | EdB | 16065 | ||
Sir Pent I fail to see how you reach your conclusions but in the spirit of brotherhood and with a certain trepidation of discussing such a delicate topic in the light of what has just happened I think it best to drop this. I too share your hope that we will grow and learn together. I have enjoyed much of our past discussions and find myself at a lost to understand this impasse. However I know there is a reason for all things. I still wish you would change your id :-) I really really hate snakes! My daddy always taught me there was only one good kind of snake, the kind that was in three pieces! Ed |
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