Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | Morant61 | 74940 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! I hope you didn't feel like I was 'jumping down your throat' when I responded to your post my friend! :-) Concernig cloning, I personally don't object to cloning based upon the timing of the 'reception' of the soul. My concerns are as follows: 1) I am concerned that we would be creating a sub-class of people, who though they are fully human, do not have basic human rights. 2) I am concerned that we would be creating 'spare parts', if we have enough money that is! 3) I am concerned that we would be further devaluing human life (as with abortion) by creating sub-classes of human beings, who only differ from the rest of humanity by the circumstances of their birth. The issue of the 'soul' has never been my problem with cloning. I simply see huge practical and ethical problems down the road if we allow cloning. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | CDBJ | 74967 | ||
Hello Tim; Your first point suggested sub class. Why would they be sub class? Your second point mentions using parts. Aren’t we in fact doing that now with hearts, livers, eyes and what all? Your third point, birth, you did away with yourself because the birth isn’t the focal point but the moment that the cells started to divide. According to the forum reasoning, at least to those that jumped down my throat, all that is needed for human soul life is an activated blastocyst with any of the DNA composite of the one to be cloned. Science would even have the ability to bring people back from the dead with this approach. Now wouldn’t that be kick in the seat of the pants? Who knows what this could develop into? Rev. 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. This was where I was trying to go with this but I figured that I better cool it. I don’t know if you read all the post or not but I set myself up apparently as a target. People assumed that I was the opposition and they weren’t going to miss their chance to fire away. Talk about judging ones motives, I never had a chance, CDBJ |
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3 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | Morant61 | 74980 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! Abortion is a tough issue to discuss because it so emotionally charged. :-) Allow me to address your responses to my points! 1) Why would they be sub-class? We already divide people up based upon wealth, and race, ect... How would we treat people who were not born naturally, but were cloned? What rights would they have? What protections? Some Sci-fi writers have long speculated that clones could be used to create sub-classes of human labors who did not have to be paid much, if at all. There is definitely a tremendous danger here. 2) Parts? We may use organs from dead people, but we don't create human being simply as spare parts. With clones, if I was wealthy enough, I could literally clone myself several times and keep 'spare' parts around for myself. Again, what rights would these 'clones' have? 3) I don't follow your point here my friend! Clones would not be 'copies' of dead people or those who are still living. They would be 'babies' who would grow up differently, with different experiences, different thoughts, in other words, different people. They would simply share the DNA of another person. Personally, I don't believe that we 'have' a soul. I believe that we have a spiritual nature and a physical nature, and that these two together make us a living soul. So, I would definitely agree with those that say from the moment of conception that the baby is alive. It is growing. It only needs time to develop. Look at the debate in our culture about abortion though. If we treat unborn humans like this, what will be the treatment that clones could expect? I could definitely see our Supreme Court ruling that clones are 'property', not human beings. :-( Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | CDBJ | 75000 | ||
Greetings Tim, I don’t know as I have ever heard that response before regarding the soul, you stated, “Personally, I don't believe that we 'have' a soul. I believe that we have a spiritual nature and a physical nature, and that these two together make us a living soul.” I’m sure you have an answer for the following, see that you know your Bible so well? Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Adam was warned that he would die (the day) that he ate of the fruit. We know that he lived to be over 930 years old then died physically, and that being the case something had to have died the day that he ate the fruit and it wasn’t his body. The Bible tell us the there is a division between the soul and the spirit and it’s distinguishable through the use of God’s Word. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. I was always under the impression that all born believers were in agreement on this issue now you are throwing this old boy a curve. Would you care to express your view on this, I’m confused? CDBJ |
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5 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | Morant61 | 75008 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! Ever since I learned how to throw a curveball this last year, I just can't seem to stop! ;-) There are two orthodox views on the soul. One is the 'Trichotomist' view. The other is the 'Dichotomist' view. One of my sources claims that the 'Dichotomist' view has been the most widely held view throughout the history of the church, though I don't know this for a fact. I realize that there are verses which refer to body, soul, and spirit. However, there is some evidence that 'soul' and 'spirit' are synonomous. There also verses which speak of more than three 'parts'. For instance, Luke 10:27 says, "He answered: ??Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind?; and, ?Love your neighbor as yourself.?? Here, there are four 'parts' mentioned! :-) It is a complex issue, but I think is simpler to say that we have a body, we have a spirit, and that the two combined make us a living soul. This also has relevance to the abortion debate. We don't receive a soul at some point, but we are a living soul. Therefore, where there is human life, there is a soul. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | CDBJ | 75014 | ||
Hi Tim, It me again, I agree with you 100 per. on your statement, “where there is human life, there is a soul.” Could you answer that part of my question that I ask in my last post? “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Adam was warned that he would die (the day) that he ate of the fruit. We know that he lived to be over 930 years old then died physically, and that being the case something had to have died the day that he ate the fruit and it wasn’t his body.” What was it that died and that Jesus said had to be born again if it wasn’t the spirit? It has always been my impression that it was through the human spirit that we are able to communicate to God and this wasn’t functioning until the rebirth took place. |
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7 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | Morant61 | 75015 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! I knew that I forgot something! :-) I think that I addressed the question of Adam's 'death' in a series of posts about 1,000 years being like a day. Basically, we know from Scripture that 'death' isn't primarily the 'lack of life', but 'seperation' from God. So, on the day that Adam sinned against God, he did die - i.e. - his sin seperated him from God. Of course, 'physical death' was also included. But, nothing in the passage mandated that Adam must physically die on the day that he ate, only that he would receive the penalty of death. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | CDBJ | 75020 | ||
Then you don’t agree with the idea that when Jesus said you must be born again that he wasn’t referring to man’s spirit as that part of Adam that died in the garden? If that is the case then being able to see the Kingdom of God isn’t speaking of perception but actual visual contact. If what you are suggesting is true then why would Paul suggest that all this had to take place after their faith Christ. Col. 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; Couldn’t this spiritual understanding have come before salvation if they had a living spirit? I have been always been lead to believe that the Dichotomist man couldn’t perceive the things of God because he didn’t have a living spirit. 1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man (psuchikos) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Isn’t the psuchi the soul part of man? Spiritually discerned, i.e. his receiver wasn’t in working order, he doesn’t understand the signals that are being conveyed. Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. I hope we can talk more on this, unless this is getting in to the old A. verses C. thing, in which case I will drop it. CDBJ |
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9 | When is abortion right? | Ex 21:23 | Morant61 | 75021 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! No, I'll stay away from C and A! :-) Again, this is a very broad topic, but generally speaking, I don't see man's spirit as dying because of the fall. His whole nature was corrupted by sin. By the way, Jesus didn't say that we had to be 'born again'. He actually said that we had to be 'born from above'. I never did understand why His words were translated as 'born again'. Oh well! :-) I've got to run, but in summary, I believe that all 'depraved' men, if left to their own devices, would never understand the Gospel. This is why God had to draw all men to Him. But, the spiritual part of man is only corrupted by sin, not missing altogether! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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