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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | kalos | 19479 | ||
You write: "But I know a lot of people for whom a literal reading of Genesis 1-2 is a barrier to faith. "When presented with a creation story whose mechanics seem patently false to them, they reject the fact of creation and the rest of the Bible as myth. "Jesus never called us to be witnesses to creation, only to him. "How tragic if we drive away even one non-believer by focusing on such non-essentials." My reply: While I still appreciate you, your participation in the forum, and your interest in this topic, nevertheless, I cannot agree with you. And remember, as I said earlier, my problem is not with you yourself, but with the views you've expressed here. If the Bible is a barrier to one's faith, then one does not have genuine saving faith to begin with. In fact, the Bible is not a barrier to faith, it is the source of our faith. "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17 NKJV). If any part of the Bible seems patently false to a person, then the problem is in the person, not in the Bible. When one allegorizes the first two chapters of Genesis, one rejects the fact of creation and dismisses the rest of the Bible, including God's plan of salvation, as allegory. "And once you say that something in the Bible is an allegory, that is, it is only a symbol of the reality, you have just made it impossible to know what that reality is because if that reality cannot be discerned through the normal understanding of language, how can it be discerned?" Maybe I'm missing something here. I didn't know the issue was whether we were called to be witnesses to creation or witnesses to Jesus, who is the Creator (Colossians 1:16.) Again you are calling the Genesis account of creation non-essential. "Understanding origins in the book of Genesis is foundational to the rest of the Bible. If Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 don't tell us the truth, then why should we believe anything else in the Bible? . . . So what we believe about creation, what we believe about Genesis has implications all the way to the end of Scripture, implications with regard to the veracity and truthfulness of Scripture, implications as to the gospel and implications as to the end of human history all wrapped up in how we understand origins in the book of Genesis." If you still say that the Genesis account of creation is "a non-essential," then I can only suppose that you have also allegorized everything I've written on the subject and ascribed your own meaning to my words. "How tragic if we drive away even one non-believer by focusing on such non-essentials." Are we to hide, dismiss or ignore what the Bible says in order to trick someone into becoming a Christian? If a non-believer is driven away by what the Bible clearly says and means, it is not the Bible that is at fault. It is the very unbelief of the non-believer that prevents him from receiving and believing the truth. It seems that to reject the Genesis account of creation by doubting or disbelieving its truth and accuracy equals rejecting the entire Bible and its truth and accuracy. "Science does not contradict the Bible. Oh, hundreds of times, the Bible has contradicted science – and science has in due turn been found to be wrong.” (Truths That Transform - D. James Kennedy) |
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2 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19503 | ||
AT THE RISK OF ANNOYING YOU FINE FOLKS EVEN FURTHER... With all respect, the Bible is not the source of our faith, at least not mine. The Bible informs my faith; it informs the faith of those who influenced me. But the Holy Spirit is the source of my faith; it is a gift of God (Romans 12:3, 2 Peter 1:1). Romans 10:17 isn't a reference to the Bible; it's a reference to the gospel of Christ. I love the Bible and read it regularly (OT and NT). But it didn't save me; Jesus did. You do me a disservice by saying that I "reject" the Genesis account of creation. Genesis 1 says that God created the heavens and the earth; I believe that with all my heart. It says that he created man and woman in his own image; I believe that with all my heart. It goes on to describe Adam and Eve, their innocence and their fellowship with God, the temptation by Satan, the fall, and the consequences. I believe those things with all my heart. Why? Because all of those events have a direct bearing on the person and work of Jesus Christ. But if the physical mechanism of creation is essential to the faith, why didn't Jesus ever talk about it? If I weren't such an agreeable fellow, I'd be offended by your suggetion that I might advocate "tricking" people into becoming Christians. Can you show me where in the Bible we are instructed to demand belief in a literal interpretation of the creation? If I can show someone that they need a savior and Jesus is the one they need, if I can tell that person how Jesus has changed my life, if I can share my confidence in my salvation, is that trickery? More to the point of this discussion, can you show me where in the Bible it says that belief in the Bible is a condition of salvation? Where does it say that entrance to the Kingdom depends on belief in Abraham or Moses or Peter or Paul? Of course, the only requirement is faith in Jesus Christ. If you were to tell me God requires me to beieve a particular reading of Genesis, that would come perilously close to adding to the gospel. Likewise, suggesting that belief in the Bible is a prerequisite for salvation would turn the Bible into an idol. The Bible makes no such claims for itself. And I assume that such is not your intent. I read the Bible because it helps me to better know Jesus and what he expects of me (and how far I fall short). I accept the Bible's own description of itself in 2 Timothy 3:15-18. I will go even further: The Bible is the inspired world of God and that makes it important. But if it didn't bear witness to Jesus, I don't know what practical value it would have. Peace and grace, Steve |
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3 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | Sir Pent | 19507 | ||
Welcome to the Forum ............................. Dear Steve, I would like to interupt this discussion to let you know that I am glad that you have recently been sharing your ideas with this forum. I have been reading the posts on this topic, and you have caught a lot of heat so far. I would like to encourage you if I could. Although the majority of active members of this forum disagree with your interpretation of the Genesis creation; they will probably agree with you on most other beliefs that you hold. I mention this because I would hate for you to get the mistaken idea that you would never find common ground here and decide to leave. Dear everybody else involved in this thread, The original question of this thread was whether a person could be a Christian and believe in evolution? I personally believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation. However, I can also see that it is possible for a person to disagree with me and still be a part of the family of God. I think that is really the point Steve is trying to make. In fact, I would point to Steve as being a good example. From the posts that he has made thus far, he appears to be a Christian. He recognizes his own sinfulness and need for God, and he accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord. At the same time he believes in evolution. Therefore, the answer to the original question is yes. Practically this entire thread since Steve responded has actually been on a related but different question. Can a person deny the literalness of the Genesis creation and yet maintain the literalness of other parts of the Bible (ie. the resurrection)? This is a very good question and should be a seperate thread. I have some ideas on that as well. However, it is not the point of this thread. |
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4 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19535 | ||
Hello and thank you. Believe me, this is a discussion I have had in person with many beloved brothers and sisters who still manage to put up with me. I always learn something new; I hope I have brought something new to the discussion myself. I have certainly been treated with courtesy and nobody has really questioned my faith. And of course, you're right; the simple answer to the original question is just "Yes". It does seem to cry out for further explanation though. Peace and grace, Steve |
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