Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19402 | ||
Yes - sort of. First let me say that arguments about HOW God created the universe distract us from the wonder of the fact THAT God created the universe. "in the beginning, God" may be the four most important words in the Bible because everything else hangs on their truth. The Bible is not a scientific textbook, it is a spriritual textbook ("... from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" - 2 Tim 3:15-17). I have no trouble with thinking of the first few chapters of Geneseis as a parable. Such thinking does not impair the Bible's chief purpose of pointing the reader toward Jesus. Knowing him - and our need for him - has nothing to do with how or when God created the universe. For us old-Earth Christians, evolution is nothing more than one way God could have created the diverse life on this planet. Note that the agent is God, not the mechanism that Darwin erroneously proposed (random mutation plus natural selection). It makes perfectly good sense to me that God could have directed evolution, with his ultimate creature, man, in mind all the time. IMHO, God-directed evolution explains the evidence for both evolution and intelligent design and is consistent with the spiritual truth of Genesis. So, yes, I do think that a form of evolution provides a better explanation of the physical evidence than a literal reading of Genesis 1-2. And yes, I am a Christian who accepts without reservation my sinful condition, my inability to save myself, the person and work of Jesus, the grace of God extended through Jesus, and the promise of salvation through faith in Jesus. |
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2 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | kalos | 19435 | ||
"If Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 don't tell us the truth, then why should we believe anything else in the Bible?" Not an essential topic??? You write: "I have no trouble with thinking of the first few chapters of Genesis as a parable." My reply: I do. I have a huge problem with thinking that the Genesis account of creation is a parable. You write: "Again, this is an interesting topic but a non-essential one." My answer: No, this topic is not non-essential. Why is it necessary that the Genesis account of creation be taken as historical fact? "...understanding origins in the book of Genesis is foundational to the rest of the Bible. If Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 don't tell us the truth, then why should we believe anything else in the Bible? If it says in the New Testament that the Creator is our Redeemer, and if God is not the Creator, then maybe He's not the Redeemer either. If it tells us in 2 Peter that God Himself will bring about an instantaneous dissolution of the entire universe as we know it, that God in a moment will uncreate everything, then that has tremendous bearing upon His power to create...the same One who with a word can uncreate the universe is capable of creating it as quickly as He desires. "So what we believe about creation, what we believe about Genesis has implications all the way to the end of Scripture, implications with regard to the veracity and truthfulness of Scripture, implications as to the gospel and implications as to the end of human history all wrapped up in how we understand origins in the book of Genesis. The matter of origins then is absolutely critical to all human thinking. It becomes critical to how we conduct our lives as human beings. Without an understanding of origins, without a right understanding of origins, there is no way to comprehend ourselves. There is no way to understand humanity as to the purpose of our existence, and as to our destiny. If we cannot believe what Genesis says about origins, we are lost as to our purpose and our destiny. Whether this world and its life as we know it evolved by chance, without a cause, or was created by God has immense comprehensive implications for all of human life. (...) "Either you believe God did create the heavens and the earth or you believe He did not. Really those are the only two valid options you have. And if you believe that God did create the heavens and the earth, then you are left with the only record of that creation and that's Genesis 1 and you are bound to accept the text of Genesis 1 as the only appropriate and accurate description of that creative act. "So again I say, you're left really with two choices. You either believe Genesis or you don't. You either believe the Genesis account that God created the heavens and the earth, or you believe they somehow evolved out of random chance. "This is more than just a secondary issue. " (http://www.gty.org/Broadcast/transcripts/90-208.htm) |
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3 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19443 | ||
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope I made it clear that I do indeed believe that God created the heavens and the earth and that Genesis 1-2 tells me that. But no one's salvation depends on whether or not they believe there is valid scientific information in Genesis 1-2. Please believe that I respect your position, one that is shared by many brothers and sisters in Christ but by no means all. Peace and Grace, Steve |
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4 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | kalos | 19449 | ||
"Avoid spiritualizing or allegorizing the Bible. This is that which gives to the Bible some kind of mystical meaning. In other words, what is on the surface is not the meaning, but what is hidden becomes the meaning. This is very popular. Allegorizing means to say that the historical meaning is not the real meaning, and in fact may be nothing but a fabrication. The historical meaning is not the real meaning, the real meaning is the spiritual meaning hidden beneath the surface. "And once you say that something in the Bible is an allegory, that is, it is only a symbol of the reality, you have just made it impossible to know what that reality is because if that reality cannot be discerned through the normal understanding of language, how can it be discerned?" (from the radio message: "How to Study Your Bible: Interpretation" by John MacArthur on Grace to You broadcast) Steve: Thank you for your follow-up on my note. I respect you as a fellow believer. I welcome you to the forum. I have a few problems with your view -- not with you yourself, but with your view. You make the statement "But no one's salvation depends on whether or not they believe there is valid scientific information in Genesis 1-2." If you believe the above statement that you made, then I think that you did not properly understand the meaning of my previous note. "If Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 don't tell us the truth, then why should we believe anything else in the Bible?" And how can Genesis chapters 1 and 2 tell us the truth, if those passages are not valid scientific information? The Genesis account of creation is not a parable. And if Gen. 1 and 2 contradict true science, then those chapters are not true. And if those chapters are not true and accurate, then why should we believe anything else in the Bible? For example, if it says in the New Testament that the Creator is our Redeemer, and if God is not the Creator, then maybe He's not the Redeemer either. If the first two chapters of Genesis are not to be taken as literal, accurate and true, then maybe the scriptures that tell us of salvation in Christ are not literal, accurate and true either. Any further comments you have on this topic are welcome. However, please understand that I do not wish to enter into a debate on this or any other topic. Grace to you. |
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5 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19462 | ||
Thanks for your comments. I'm with you, I don't want to get into a debate either. I answered a question and don't mind explaining myself further. I'll risk offending you (I hope I don't) and say that salvation does not depend on belief in the Bible. I ignored the Bible until after I became a Christian. C. S. Lewis and the odd sermon now and then informed me about Jesus. (I attended church monthly because my wife belonged and my daughter sang in the children's choir.) Neither Lewis nor my pastor told me that I had to believe in 7 24-hour days. It was strictly the Holy Spirit working in my life that led me to faith in Christ. It was only afterwards that I began to read the Bible to find out what the heck had happened to me! So the issues you raise have never troubled me; I have never read the Bible except through eyes of faith. My understanding of Genesis 1-2 allows me to see God's hand in the world that I find before me. At the same time, the Bible informs my understanding of that world by revealing transcendent spiritual truths. Peace and grace, Steve |
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6 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | kalos | 19483 | ||
An observation. On 10-17-2001, I counted more than 25 paragraphs that you had posted for the day. Out of 25 paragraphs, I noticed you cited a total of six different scripture references. This works out to .24 (24/100 of one) scripture reference per paragraph. Or 1 scripture reference for every 4 paragraphs. It is interesting to note that in a StudyBibleForum, you rely very little on Scripture to support your assertions or arguments. As a friend of mine observed in an email the other day, "I think my favorite gripe is when people respond to a Biblical point with nothing more than opinion or theological bias." Normally he and I, as well as many others here, try to support our assertions and arguments with scripture. My point: It seems that you give very little weight to the Bible and what it says. Fair enough! I, for my part, give very little weight to forum postings that use little or no scripture to support the assertions contained therein. Again, I value you and your participation. Agreeing with me has never been a requirement for friendship. If it were, then how few friends I would have! :-) Grace to you. |
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7 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | stjones | 19505 | ||
Thanks for the statistical analysis. My most recent note ("AT THE RISK OF ANNOYING...") contains 5 paragraphs and 4 referneces for a ratio of .8. Much better, eh? ;-) But there really is a reason. I said at the beginning that my position was based on 2 Timothy 3:15-18. The discussion was about Genesis 1. Most of what I've said has to do with my application of the first to the second. Besides, the initial question was about evolution and I don't think there are any scriptural references to that anyway. Peace and grace, Steve |
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