Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 131843 | ||
Greetings Doc! You wrote: "Ed, the truth of a doctrine cannot be verified by the number of people who adhere to it. Just as the truth of a doctrine cannot be falsified by the number of people who abuse it. We need to carefully search the scriptures, and test the fruit of the adherents, as we are commanded." Yet, the arguement of this entire thread seems to be that very few have practiced it over the years; therefore, tongues must have passed away. :-) There is only one verse in the entire Bible that mentions the gift of tongues ceasing. That same verse also mentions prophesy and knowledge ceasing as well. The timing of this 'ceasing' is absolutely vague, to say the least. So, let's lay aside the historical arguement (which really carries no authority anyway), and address what Scripture actually says. What is your Scriptural case that tongues are no longer valid? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 131851 | ||
Hi, Brother Tim... very well said. I was talking about the history of tongues because that was Ed's topic. I will try to answer as clearly, openly, and honestly as possible. I do not have a clear scriptural basis to affirm that tongues are no longer valid. In fact, I am not certain of that conclusion, although I am open to its consideration. My doubt in the matter is really only circumstantial. As I stated earlier I do not find any conclusive evidence of a "private prayer language" in scripture. But that notion does appear to be frequently taught. Instead, I find in scripture that tongues always accompanied great evangelism. But that does not seem to be the case in circles where this doctrine is espoused. Throughout scripture any encounter with God always brings great conviction, humility, and a strong sense of His holiness. Every visitation of God polarizes people. Either they fall on their faces and cry out, "I am undone, have mercy on me!" (Isaiah 6:5, Luke 18:38) Or they rage, "We shall not walk therein, we have no king but Caesar!" (Jeremiah 6:16b, John 19:15b). If people are being touched so directly by the Holy Spirit such that tongues -- or any other signs -- are manifested as they claim, why is there not an equally strong desire for purity and holiness? I simply do not see those who adhere to this doctrine walking in greater obedience, or producing greater quantities of spiritual fruit, or even increasing in their love for one another. I especially do not see them growing in knowledge of the Holy Scriptures. My brothers, please do not think I am finding fault. I do not see myself as superior, for no doubt many who practice these doctrines are better men than I! Instead, I mourn at the absence of vital, scriptural spirituality. I hope that I have not drawn out this controversy. I wouldn't have answered your question if I had thought that I might be doing so. Thank you for your patience. |
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3 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 131853 | ||
Doc Once again you seem to miss some important information on this subject. You said, "Instead, I find in scripture that tongues always accompanied great evangelism. But that does not seem to be the case in circles where this doctrine is espoused." The current Pentecostal movement started in and around 1900. If you will once again refer to church history you will also see it stirred some of the greatest revivals and evangelistic outpourings in modern times. What we see today is really a remnant of what took place. In the early part of the twentieth century churches literally sprang up over night, people turned to God committed to a walk of holiness. In many cases this new found faith is what carried many through the depression and later the wars of that era. The Assemblies of God started and now have over 50 million adherents, and then there was the Church of God, Pentecostal Church of God, Apostolic Church of God, Church of God in Christ and many more. All of these that did not exist before 1900 and most grew from the great evangelistic outpouring that accompanied the move of the Holy Spirit. An interesting aspect as members of various denominations experienced the manifestations of the Holy Spirit they were asked to leave their denominations. Which to me partially explains why the Pentecostal denominations are still experiencing growth while the mainline or non Pentecostal denominations in many cases are in decline. I also have no desire to prolong this thread but I only want to insure the true picture is presented. EdB |
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4 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 131857 | ||
The greatest amount of evangelism to take place around the world in the last four centuries are predominantly out of groups with Calvinist roots. This is easy to demonstrate. For example, look at the number of converts under Whitfield versus Wesley. Even today, the revival that is occuring in Korea is predominantly Presbyterian. | ||||||
5 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 131868 | ||
Doc And I thought you said numbers don't count. How about we look at the numbers from this perspective. At the turn of century there was no Pentecostal church much less a revivial. Also remember every step the Pentecostal's took was met with opposition from the "Calvinists". Now lets see, they start with nothing and achieve over 50 million world wide. The Calvinist start with a intact network and massive churches and they accomplish how much? Aren't the numbers declining still? Incidently the greatest revivial in Korea is very Pentecostal and is lead by Paul Cho and he is very Pentecostal but ordained Presbterian I believe. EdB |
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6 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 131879 | ||
Numbers of adherents to a truth do not count. Evangelistic fruit, changed lives, are always an indication of where God is moving. So the Presbyterian Cho is Pentecostal? That is like saying the Baptist Joe is Roman Catholic. :-) Whatever, Ed... Wisdom is justified by her children. |
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7 | Scriptural evidence? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 131908 | ||
As a matter of fact he is. I was told the reason for him being Presbyterian but I simply don't recall the exact reason now. However I know Paul Cho is pentecostal. Contact me by e-mail and I'll discuss this with you if you desire. EdB |
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