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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Election | 1 Pet 1:2 | Wild Olive Shoot | 163916 | ||
Hi Tim, A question for your question I guess: Is the reference to those that were hardened indicative of a perpetual state? v25 and 26 would seem to indicate that their hardness was temporary, and at a length set by God Himself. So wouldn't they still be the elect, only temporarily hardened to fulfill the purpose of advancing the Gospel to the Gentiles? This would allow for God to graft them back in at the time he deemed appropriate still being the chosen and having their blindness removed. It doesn’t necessarily specify that the hardened were not the elect to begin with. Some are hardened forever, some temporarily, but all at God’s discretion according to His eternal purpose. This may have been touched upon in the thread already, it is lengthy and rather difficult to follow along, so please accept my apology if I have inadvertently asked a question that has been addressed. WOS |
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2 | Election | 1 Pet 1:2 | Morant61 | 163920 | ||
Greetings WOS! No problem my friend, I appreciate the question. :-) I would say that the 'hardening' is not necessarily permanent since the rest of the chapter deals with the fact that they can be grafted in again. However, the main point of my question what that they are clearly not included in the 'elect'. Notice how Rom. 11:7 distinguishes between the two groups. There is those who were hardened, then there is the 'elect'. Those who were hardened are clearly not included in the elect because they 'have not obtained it, but the elect did'. They are not described as 'elect who have been temporary hardened', but as distinct from the elect who have already obtained it. My point was that if election refers to God's choice in the eternal past of who would be saved and who would not, then that number is set. Yet, this passage makes it clear that the number is not set. Just my two cents worth! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Election | 1 Pet 1:2 | Wild Olive Shoot | 163926 | ||
Tim, Doesn’t v28 and 29 indicate that they are still undeniably the elect? My point I guess is that they (some) are still the elect just temporarily cut off, still secure of their election, unbeknownst to them maybe, but declared by God, to be grafted back in after the fullness of the gentiles have come in. After the fullness of the gentiles would seem to me that there is a set number known by God or a definite point in time when the stupor will be lifted from the elect. Maybe I’m way off, but I get the sense that the remnant was still declared as the elect long ago and that the hardening was determined that the gospel could be given to the gentiles to raise jealousy. After all: Rom 10:21 But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. It seems to me that the hardening is God’s way of making Israel jealous for His grace so that they may fully recognize or understand His mercy when grafting them back in based only on their faith. I truly see your point as to the distinction between the elect and the hardened in v7. But it seems, to me anyhow, that v23 shows for sure, that some will be grafted back in and those who shall be, are the very elect mentioned in v28 and those that are not grafted in, would be those God chose not to or those who aren’t the elect. So the “natural branches” (those that have always been or those temporarily cut off and grafted back in) as well as the “wild olive shoots” were always the elect but just not united. But as God has purposed, they will be unified, those that are His chosen that is, and come together as one body as indicated also Ephesians 2:11-22. God has His elect and simply uses them for His purpose and in a manner that is beneficial and attributable to His infinite knowledge and wisdom in bringing His elect to Him. Just my simple perspective. Thank you for your response and thoughts. I can see you all have been involved with this subject quite a bit lately. I’m still trying to take it all in and catch up, so please bear with me if you will. WOS |
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4 | Election | 1 Pet 1:2 | Morant61 | 163936 | ||
Greetings WOS: I agree with what you say about the reason for the hardening. You wrote: "I truly see your point as to the distinction between the elect and the hardened in v7. But it seems, to me anyhow, that v23 shows for sure, that some will be grafted back in and those who shall be, are the very elect mentioned in v28 and those that are not grafted in, would be those God chose not to or those who aren’t the elect. " I agree that some will be grafted back in, but I disagree that they are already elect. My reason is that v. 7 states that the elect had already received it, but the rest hadn't. As I read it, those who are grafted in again are those who respond in faith to Christ's gift, but they are listed as the elect in v. 7. So, I see a hard clear distinction between the elect and the rest. Well, I have to run to store! Have a great day! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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