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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181003 | ||
Hi kalos It's just that there isn't any warrant for the use of the word "if" for Heb. 6:6. A quick look at the Greek will bear this out. The word "if" is believed to have been inserted by Calvin's sucessor Theodore Beza in an attempt to lend support to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. Therefore the correct rendering of Heb. 6:6 is as follows: and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. NASB Blessings NC |
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2 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | Hank | 181011 | ||
New Creature - Quoted from your post 181003, commenting on Hebrews 6:6, "The word 'if' is believed to have been inserted by Calvin's successor, Theodore Beza, in an attempt to lend support to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints." .... Documentation, please. By whom it is believed that Beza corrupted the text, and what proof do they have to offer that he did? ..... Hebrews 2:1-4 bears a striking resemblance to the matter under consideration in Hebrews 6:4-6. The word 'if' is not crucial in the passage and, taken in the broader context of the Hebrew letter -- and yes, of the entire NT teaching on soteriology, it doesn't materially affect the doctrine of the eternal security of the regenerate believer in Christ. The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, not unlike all other orthodox doctrines, never hinges on a single verse or an isolated segment of Scripture. Here is a sampling of passages that attest that salvation is eternal, that eternal life is indeed and unmistakably eternal: 1 Peter 1:4,5; John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6. There continues to be are those who insist on making this Hebrews 6:4-6 passage mean that believers can lose their salvation. But if they do try to read such a meaning into the passage, they must be prepared to admit, accept and teach that the passage would then also say that one could never get his salvation back again. It would therefore become tanatamount to committing an unforgivable sin. This sort of interpretative mishandling of the passage leads to all sorts of theological blunders and dead-ends. --Hank | ||||||
3 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181030 | ||
"And having fallen away." I can express my own mind on this translation nearly in the words of Dr. Macknight: "The participles who were enlightened, have tasted, and were made partakers, being aorists, are properly rendered by our translators in the past time; wherefore parapesontas, being an aorist, ought likewise to have been translated in the past time, ‘HAVE fallen away.’ Nevertheless, our translators, following …… Calvin’s successor Theodore Beza, who without any authority from ancient MSS. has inserted in his version the word ‘if,’ have rendered this clause, IF they fall away, that this text might not appear to contradict the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. But as no translator should take upon him to add to or alter the Scriptures, for the sake of any favorite doctrine, I have translated parapesontas in the past time, ‘have fallen away,’ according to the true import of the word, as standing in connection with the other aorists in the preceding verses" (Adam Clarke) |
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4 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | Morant61 | 181036 | ||
Greetings New Creature! Here is a re-post of some old material I posted on this passage. You might find it interesting. ************ The problem with Heb. 6:6 is that all of the verbs in this verse occur only one time in the New Testament. This makes it very difficult to be dogmatic about what they mean, since we have no context to compare them with. With that in mind, I believe the following: 1) That the author is writting to Christians, not pagans or hearers only! 2) That this passage is describing a continuing attitude or action! 3) That the person who persists in this attitude is lost! 4) That any sin or attitude can be repented of! Let's look at the progress of the passage. Beginning in verse 4, the passage says that it is impossible to renew to repentance those who: * have been enlighted (aorist participle). * have partaken of the heavenly gift (aorist participle). * have shared in the Holy Spirit (aorist participle). * have tasted the word of God (aorist participle). * have fallen away (aorist participle). The key, I think, is found in the last two verbs. I believe that they give the reason why these people cannot be brought to repentance again. These two verbs say that: * they are cruciying afresh (present participle). * they are exposing Him to public disgrace (present participle). All of the other verbs are aorist participles. They describe past actions. These last two are present participles describing present actions and attitudes. I think that the people described here are similar to those in Heb. 10:26 and 10:29. They are believers who despise the blood of Christ and wilfully sin against Him. The context of Heb. 6:7-8 would seem to support this. But, here is the key point. The impossiblity of renewing them to repentance seems to be tied to their current and ongoing attitude. I don't see anything is the passage that indicates that such a person can never be saved again or can never repent. It is impossible now, because they are crucifying, they are publicly shaming Christ, and they are sinning wilfully. If that attitude changes, I don't see any grammatical reason why they could not repent. One of the basic rules of interpretation is to let clear Scripture interpret less clear Scripture. Heb. 6:6 is not real clear. But, 1 John 1:9 is clear. No where else in Scripture are we told that it is impossible for someone to repent. Therefore, I would say that Heb. 6:6 desribes the lost condition of those who are actively and currently rejecting Christ wilfully. As long as they remain in this state of rejection, it is impossible for the to repent, since salvation is found only in the Christ they are rejecting. If they have a change of attitude toward Christ, I believe that this passage would no longer apply to them. _______________________________________________ Or, to state the case more briefly, the verse can be translated: "It is impossible to renew them to repentance while they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God and while they are subjecting Him to public disgrace." Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181044 | ||
Thanks for this reply Tim. I agree with it. Blessings NC |
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