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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Works in the Christian experience? | Heb 6:4 | Bill Mc | 17845 | ||
Dear Joe, You're correct, salvation has always been by faith and never by works. Before the cross, OT saints were saved by faith in whatever God's Word and revelation was to them - Heb 11. After the cross, we are saved by faith in God's Final Word, Jesus Christ - Heb 1:2. So, no, the Law could not save. But Peter's life was bridged in the OT and the NT. He became Jesus' disciple under the OT, while Christ was incarnate on earth- Gal 4:4. Was he saved at this point? Yes. But he was not a NT believer. After Christ died, the NT went into effect and Peter then became a NT saint through regeneration (crucified, buried, and resurrected with Christ - Rom 6:4, Gal 2:20), with the indwelling of God Himself at Pentecost. We see no record whatsoever of Peter denying Christ after Pentecost. In fact, tradition says that he was crucified upside-down. What caused such a change in this beloved apostle? The indwelling Christ. My post never said that Peter was not saved before the cross. I said that he was not a NT believer - those who are reconciled, redeemed and regenerated by Christ's Himself - until after the cross. You may feel that I am splitting hairs here but the distinction is not mine, it is God's - Rom 8:9. Paul makes it clear, by revelation from Jesus Christ Himself, that after the cross, the Holy Spirit is the seal, the guarantee of what God has done in redeeming and saving us. It is non-negotiatable, either you are a Christian because Christ is in you and you are in Him, or you are not. In light of that truth, I was asking John not to gauge his relationship with God upon Peter's unregenerate example. He needs to gauge his relationship with God upon the secure work of Christ on the cross, not on his feelings or experiences. Feelings and experiences will 'catch up' as we place our faith and trust in the facts of the redemption that our Lord has provided. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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2 | Works in the Christian experience? | Heb 6:4 | Reformer Joe | 17860 | ||
What, then, is the precise difference, in your opinion, from being "reconciled, redeemed, and regenerated" and being "saved." "Reconciled" means that God and I have been brought together again. "Redeemed" means that God has bought me back from the sinfulness to which I was a slave. "Regenerated" means that I have been made a new creation. In what way did Peter not possess these things pre-Crucifixion and still be "saved"? In other words, if his relationship with God were wtill severed, if he still was a slave to sin, and if he were still the same ol' Peter in every way, how can we say that he was saved before Pentecost? An excellent work on the question of faith, works, and assurance can be found by reading a book called Righteous Sinners, by Ron Julian. --Joe! |
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3 | Works in the Christian experience? | Heb 6:4 | Bill Mc | 17863 | ||
Joe, Peter was saved by faith in what Christ said to him. Jesus told him, "The words that I speak to you are truth and life." People in the OT were saved by faith in God. Many of these people believed that God would one day send the Messiah to pay the full price for their sins. They looked forward to Christ's work on the cross, while we look back to it. Their righteousness was credited to them until Christ paid the full price of redemption. Hebrews makes it clear the Christ's sacrifice redeemed them - Heb 9:15. When that price was paided, I believe that Christ took them from Abraham's bossom to heaven. OT saints were 'saved' - delivered from the wages of sin, eternal death in Hell, but I don't think that they went to heaven until Christ's sacrifice. OT saints did not have the Holy Spirit to permanently indwell them. Often, He 'came upon' them to empower them to speak or act on God's behalf. But disobedience usually made Him leave (Saul, David). God did not indwell them. And OT saints could not go running into the Holy of Holies. They were credited forgiveness and righteousness but they were not made so. We can enter into the Holy of Holies. We are now the temple of God. The temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. Peter was saved before Christ's death by placing his faith and trust in Christ. But Christ made it very clear to His disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit. Much of what Christ taught them in His 3 years of public ministry went over their heads. They were forever asking Him what He was talking about. But Christ said that when the Holy Spirit came to them, He would cause the disciples to not only remember what Christ said, but He would explain it to them. Note: I don't believe we are righteous sinners. God calls us saints 63 times in the New Testament. As bad as the Corinthian church acted, Paul called them saints. No offense, Joe, but study the NT word sinner. It is most often used of Gentiles and unbelievers. It is never used of saints, those in Christ. James does use it but there were unbelievers in every assembly then as there are now. If one think that he is just a 'sinner saved by grace,' then one doesn't fully understand what Christ died to do. Jesus didn't come just to get men out of hell and into heaven. He came to get Himself out of heaven and into men. Peace and God bless, Bill Mc |
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