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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is God and Jesus are one person? | Heb 1:8 | bstudent | 119192 | ||
Just thought you might want to know. Any comments on 1 Cor 15:28? Everywhere I read, in any translation, I keep seeing the Bible writers acknowledging the Father's superior position to his Son. The Father gives Jesus any and all authority he possesses because it belongs to Him. Jesus repeatedly pointed out his position relative to his God. For the Scriptures to use the relationship of a father and son to illustrate equality and "coeternity" to the patriarchal Jews is ludicrous, "it doesn't make sense." A handful of passages translated to support the trinity, even when it may be a legimate grammatical alternative to do so, cannot overcome the overwhelming evidence supporting Jesus being the firstborn of creation, a separate and obviously inferior creature to the Creator who had no beginning. In addition to your comments on 1 Cor 15:28, I'm interested to know how you respond to the spurious verses in the KJ at 1 John 5:7 and Rev 1:11? The translation influenced a lot of people. Why the need to bolster the trinity doctrine by adding to the things written under inspiration if its so clear? The sordid history of the development of this apostate doctrine is well documented in encyclopias. That history does not sound like the way truth was discerned in the days of the apostles! |
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2 | is God and Jesus are one person? | Heb 1:8 | kalos | 119195 | ||
'To say "God is your throne" doesn't make sense...God alone is on His throne and He isn't a throne for anyone else.' Before we proceed any further, are there any questions or comments about my previous note and its main point regarding Hebrews 1:8? ____________________ bstudent: I have nothing against you, but I will not be led on a merry chase in which I reply to a question and then the subject is changed. I have no intention of jumping from one subject to another to another. Your note (to which this is a reply) doesn't address my previous note in which I was discussing Hebrews 1:8. If you choose not to reply directly to my comments regarding Hebrews 1:8, then I'm finished here. --kalos ******************** '"But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness'" The New World Translation. 'In this particularly interesting verse, God is addressing the Son. The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways: '"God is your throne forever and ever.... and '"Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever..." 'But because of the Watchtower presupposition that Jesus is not God, they choose the first version, otherwise, the Father would be calling Jesus God and that goes against Jehovah's Witness theology. Yet, most Bibles do not translate it the way the New World Translation does. They choose the other way. Why? Two reasons. 'First, Heb. 1:8 is a quote from Psalm 45:6, which says, '"Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom" (All Bible quotes are from the NASB). 'In fact, the ASV, KJV, NIV, and NKJV all translated it as "Your throne, O God..." The RSV translates it as "Your divine throne endures for ever and ever," "but this is a highly unlikely translation because it requires understanding the Hebrew noun for "throne" in construct state, something extremely unusual when a noun has a pronomial suffix, as this one does...The KJV, NIV, and NASB all take the verse in its plain, straightforward sense, as do the ancient translations..."[1] 'When we look at the Hebrew, we see that there is no grammatical requirement for this translation, though it is considered to be the best translation by most translators. In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king, which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God. But, it is not uncommon for NT writers to take a verse in the OT that seemingly deals with one subject and apply it to another. They knew something we didn't. In fact, in Ezekiel 28:12-17 is a section that deals with the fall of the devil. Verse 13 says describes how he was in the garden of Eden. Verse 14 says he was the anointed cherub, (v. 15), etc. But the context of this section begins with an address to the king of Tyre (v. 12). Yet, right after Ezekiel is told to write to the King of Tyre, he then goes on to describe what the great majority of theologians agree with is a description of the devil's fall. So, we need to look at the context that the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6 into. He addressed it to Jesus. Therefore, Psalm 45 is a Messianic Psalm and must be in interpreted in light of the NT, not the other way around. 'Nevertheless, the context of this verse follows: '"For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou art My son, Today I have begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"? 6And when he again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." 7And of the angels He says "Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire." 8But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom, 9Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions. 10And, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; 11They will perish, but though remainest..." (Heb. 1:5-11). 'To say "God is your throne" doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say, "But to which of the angels did he say, God is your throne"? What would that mean? Is God, Jesus' throne? God alone is on His throne and He isn't a throne for anyone else. (...) 'The Watchtower organization denies that Jesus is God. Therefore, it cannot permit any verses in the Bible to even hint that Jesus is God. That is why they choose a translation that does not best fit the context or overall theology of the Bible.' Footnote 1. Grudem, Wayne, Systematic Theology, Intervarsity Press, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1994, page 227. ________________ (www.carm.org/jw/heb1_8.htm) |
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3 | is God and Jesus are one person? | Heb 1:8 | bstudent | 119202 | ||
kalos: I'm sure you're a nice guy too. As you say: “God alone is on his throne.” If he grants authority to anyone to rule, human (Solomon?) or spirit (Jesus), that authority issues from God. First, note the context. The NASB reads at Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him. Yet, you believe that Jesus can be God, and actually receive authority from the one referred to as ‘his God.” “God is my throne” does make sense. He is described as being my or our “shade”, “rock”, “strength”, “stronghold”, “salvation”, and “signal pole.” (Ps 121:5; 2 Sa 22:2,3; Is 12:2; Ex 17:15) Just as a rock symbolizing God’s constancy and dependability, his throne symbolizes his sovereignty. God is love; he is the epitome and source of true love. God alone is Almighty, and anyone he gives his power to may become “mighty” but always subordinate to Him. (Is 9:6,7) Perhaps now you see the reason for my eluding to 1 Cor 15: 28 in my first and second note. Not a “merry chase” at all, just a logical conclusion to the harmonious truth of God’s inspired word. |
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