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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Rapture | 1 Thess 4:17 | stjohn | 216835 | ||
Dear CDBJ, Can you show scripturally that 1 Thes. 5:2 is in reference to those outside of Christ? I was under the impression that Thessalonians was written to believers. I was also taught that it is in reference to the fact that we should be ready at all times as though He could come at any time. So we are to prepare and be ready always, so when He does come, we will be looking for Him, and not be surprised as though He came as a thief in the night, and not be looking for something else like so many who are more interested in looking for the antichrist and not Christ. John |
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2 | Rapture | 1 Thess 4:17 | CDBJ | 216841 | ||
Hi John, Paul had informed those in Thessalonica personally about the things that would be taking place just before the Lord’s return but they were neglecting to assimilate the doctrine that he had taught them and apply it to their experience. Paul told them that they would be persecuted but that the Lord would avenge those that will be doing the persecution even though it will seem like He delays His vengeance on their part. When Paul uses the words “they and them” he is referring to those outside of Christ or those that don’t obey the gospel message. When he uses the words “we and us”, it’s a reference to those that have believed the gospel message and have trusted in Christ Jesus. 1 Thes. 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. Things are going to get so bad that believers will assume that the Lord has delayed His coming because they are under the assumption that believers wouldn’t be going through such hard times but the Lord is a Just judge. Luke 18:1-8 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? There is a time coming when the Lord will receive prayer from His believers from both sides of the grave because of the intense persecution. Rev. 6:9-10 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? The Lord’s return will seem like it is way overdue to many who have been deceived into believing that they will escape the torture that is to come from the deceiver. 2 Thes. 1:5-6 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; There is a time coming when believers will think that they missed the rapture because they have been told that they would be removed before the great persecution by antichrist takes place but Christ and Paul taught otherwise. 2 Thes. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. I personally “do not like the thought of this” but it’s the Lord’s purpose and design and He can give me the grace to go through it if I don’t loose heart. Luke 18:7-8 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? CDBJ |
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3 | Rapture | 1 Thess 4:17 | stjohn | 216843 | ||
Well, thanks CDBJ, thats very well said. But I don't really see in there that that proves that theory. I don't mean to sound flip, sir, but, using that logic and, saying that: "When Paul uses the words “they and them” he is referring to those outside of Christ or those that don’t obey the gospel message." Well, sir, verse 2, looks to me like it may contradict that. It says: "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night." Paul is quite obviously talking to them (the Church) because he addresses them very plainly and personally as, you, and yourselves. I don't see how that can be taken that Paul is referring to those 'outside' of Christ, when he says that they: "know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night." What Paul is ultimately telling them is, to be spiritually ready, and never tells them when nor does it say 'when' anywhere in Scripture when the day of the Lord will be. He goes on in verse 3 etc, to show them how it will be for those outside of the Church, because for them it will indeed be a terrible day, but for the Church, it will be a day of rejoicing in His coming. I kinda like what Matthew Henry has to say on vv 1-5 it really says it well and gives a good perspective on whether we should be so engrossed and predisposed in looking for the DAY of the Lord, when we should be focussed only on the Lord Himself: "It is needless or useless to ask about the particular time of Christ's coming. Christ did not reveal this to the apostles. There are times and seasons for us to work in, and these are our duty and interest to know and observe; but as to the time when we must give up our account, we know it not, nor is it needful that we should. The coming of Christ will be a great surprise to men. Our Lord himself said so. As the hour of death is the same to each person that the judgment will be to mankind in general, so the same remarks answer for both. Christ's coming will be terrible to the ungodly. Their destruction will overtake them while they dream of happiness, and please themselves with vain amusements. There will be no means to escape the terror or the punishment of that day. This day will be a happy day to the righteous. They are not in darkness; they are the children of the light. It is the happy condition of all true Christians. But how many are speaking peace and safety to themselves, over whose heads utter destruction is hovering! Let us endeavor to awaken ourselves and each other, and guard against our spiritual enemies." Matthew Henry And now sir, I bid you adieu and God bless. You may have the last word, but I'll let it just be. I don't really see anything substantive about these long deadened discussions about Eschatology. Scripture simply doesn't say when, and I think we should leave it at that, but it does say to be spiritually ready at all times so that we will be waiting for His coming and not overtaken by fear when He does come. Of corse, there always will be those who say they know the time, or how you can know the time, but actually, they just think they know. Thanks for your time, sir. :-) John |
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