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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Absolutely perfect? | Deut 32:22 | Lanny | 18476 | ||
Joe When I was saved the tree of sin was cut down but the root of sin still dwelt within and was always ready and capable of resurfacing if not dealt with. Please realize that there are two cleansings. If one could be totally cleansed after one cleansing there would be no need for a second cleansing which is santification. How long this takes after one has been saved is different from one individual to another. For myself it was nearly 2 years. Some have reached sanctification almost immediately as with the case of Paul. Yes I had put away all outward sin but I knew that my spirit was not totally right. I could feel unwanted motions that kept coming up that I knew had to be dealt with. I knew that it was only a matter of time before they would manifest themselves outwardly. I knew in my heart that entire snctification was obtainable and I knew that I must obtain it or I would eventually revert back to sin. My desires were to never return to what I once was. After diligently seeking and laboring before God I finally by the mercy of God reached the point of being sanctified. God gave me a new spirit along with my new heart. Yes, Through the Grace of God I have put away anger, pride, lustful thought, malicious intent and motive to name a few. I'm sure that we see sin the same, however sin is sin regardless of how we see it. As for being perfect I am not there but I do believe that this is also obtainable and that we should go on to perfection, maybe not in the eyes of man, but in the eyes of God. The church in question is the Church of God. (nondenominational and not pentecostal)If you would like more information about the church or would like to attend I would be happy to supply you more information. Lanny |
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2 | Absolutely perfect? | Deut 32:22 | Reformer Joe | 18493 | ||
Lanny: Thanks for the reply. I am still a little confused, however. You claim to be entirely sanctified, having put all sin away. Then you go on to say that you are not perfect yet. If you are without sin, how can you be imperfect? That seems to be a contradiction in terms. Where do you find scriptural support for "two cleansings"? You say the Church of God teaches the true Gospel, so I assume that the two cleansings can be clearly seen in Scripture. Please give me some verses which illustrate this. You also indicate that someone is "saved" after that first cleansing. Is it possible that that "second cleansing" never comes for some? The thing that causes me the most confusion with your point of view is that Paul refers to fellow believers as saints (i.e. those who already have been sanctified, set apart): "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" --Ephesians 1:1 "Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons" --Philippians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father." --Colossians 1:1-2 "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia" --2 Corinthians 1:1 "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours" --1 Corinthians 1:2 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." --1 Corinthians 6:11 So we see that Paul refers to the believers he is addressing as "sanctified." If being sanctified means being sinless, however, why does he spend so much time in his epistles instructing his saints in holy living? Take the Corinthians as a prime example. To those he has called "saints," he has to rebuke them and instruct them in some pretty obvious ways: "I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" --1 Corinthians 3:2-3 "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." --2 Corinthians 7:1 If these people have already been cleansed, having already been sanctified, made sinless in your view, why is Paul still instructing them that there is more cleansing necessary? Those who have received this second cleansing, is it impossible for them to sin now? Where does Paul anywhere in his epistles claim to be without sin? "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." --1 John 1:8 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" --1 John 2:1 So those who are John's children are still capable of sinning. Are these people not saved? I don't think John would agree with that statement: "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake." --1 John 2:12 He also gives commands that would be unnecessary if they were perfect: "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." --1 John 5:21 Please explain to me why we would even need the Bible anymore if we have received a "second cleansing" and have been entirely sanctified. If I were without sin, I would look and act just like Jesus Christ did when he dwelt among us, for he is the only human who has ever lived in moral perfection on the earth. But I don't, and you don't. --Joe! |
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