Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | flinkywood | 114698 | ||
Hank, I'm posting this as a general question. Your verses helped. Let me get the ball rolling and see where it leads. The question of whether salvation is guaranteed is moot because God has promised it: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24) …and “I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "I and the Father are one." (John 10:28-30) But is that guarantee categorical or contingent? Can we forfeit our salvation? Jesus also says, "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him…” (John 14:21) …that the one who loves Him will keep His commandments and, "…he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words” (John 14:23,24). If we don’t keep His commandments we evidence our disdain for Him and His word, and both He and the Father will not abide in us, apparently. That doesn’t mean the Holy Trinity moves out, but that we must be made a fit abode by abiding reciprocally in our Holy Tenants (John 15.5). It follows that our faith consists in our love for Him and obedience to His word. Faith requires our willingness to do His will; otherwise our faith is dead (James 2), without which we can’t please God (Heb 11.6). In the family of God we’re free to reject His love and our promised eternal life through sin. In God’s family we’re free to be prodigal. Did Peter understand salvation as a done deal irrespective of subsequent prodigality? In Acts 8:20-21 Peter’s rebukes Simon, a baptized believer, for his apostasy: “But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you… for your heart is not right with God.” (Act 8:20). Peter warns Simon that he stands to lose his salvation unless he “…repent of this wickedness… and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.” v.22 Peter’s rebuke accords with a clear understanding that salvation is both progressive, “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure…” (2Pe 1:10) and contingent: “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. (2Pe 2:20-21) Could Peter have written this without Simon in mind? Could Paul have understood salvation any differently from Peter? “for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.” (Rom 8:13) Paul is talking about spiritual death, since we’re all bound to die physically. Colin |
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2 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | John Pilgrim | 114878 | ||
FOR WHO DID CHRIST DIE? John Owen The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either: 1.) All the sins of all men. 2.) All the sins of some men, or 3.) Some of the sins of all men. In which case it may be said: That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved. That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth. But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, "Because of unbelief." I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!" |
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3 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | srbaegon | 114883 | ||
Hello John, This makes for interesting mental gymnastics, but it's not Scripture. There are two explicit statements which come to mind that show what God will condemn us for: Matthew 12:31 (ESV) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. John 3:36 (ESV) Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. Neither says it's because Christ did not die for their sin. Steve |
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4 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | John Pilgrim | 114888 | ||
I thought about the unpadonable sin Steve. Given what Jesus said about it, no one having committed it could be made new creatures in Christ. It also leads to the conclusion that it is impossible for one, having been regenerated, ever to commit such a sin. Therefore, Jesus did not die for all the sins of all men; Neither did He die for some of the sins of all men. Which leaves us with: Jesus died for all of the sins of some men. John |
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5 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | BradK | 114892 | ||
John, I don't know that I quite buy your logic:-) I realize we're getting into the area of election- a topic that has been greatly debated on this Forum. And while I would side with the Calvinists, we must be honest with scripture. Your last statement that "Jesus died for all of the sins of some men" doesn't appear in scripture though we may view the results as being so? What about Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,". Christ's death had to be efficacious for all to make the offer valid. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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6 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | John Pilgrim | 114948 | ||
Dear BradK, I am painfully aware that particular doctrines are not appreciated by some members,and I think I understand why. So...for the sake of unity and brotherhood, please let us refrain from labeling one another. The important thing is that we be "in Christ". You asked: "Your last statement that "Jesus died for all of the sins of some men" doesn't appear in scripture though we may view the results as being so?" John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. John 10:15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep John 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; Are all or only some "sheep"? You ask: What about Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,". Christ's death had to be efficacious for all to make the offer valid." Only if His death was meant for all men in the first place. Matt 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." Was the angel of the Lord wrong? He said "He will save"...will save who?... all people?...No!..."His people...". Who are "His people"? The Jews only? Only "some". Jews were saved. The Gentiles? No. Only "some" were saved. I believe all that the Father gave Him were those who are meant by "His people". God Bless, John |
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7 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | EdB | 114949 | ||
John The debate you seem bent on perpetuating has been ongoing for 500 years. Minds greater than ours has not been able to reconcile various scriptures on the subject to the satisfaction of both sides. So what is the point? Are we so prideful to think we have the answer? This topic has been discussed and re-discussed on this forum with no results other than anger and hurt feelings. Many a good contributor has left the forum over what has taken place in the name of this debate. In the name of Christian unity I ask you and all involved to refrain from further debate on this subject. EdB |
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8 | How did Paul understand salvation? | Eph 1:5 | John Pilgrim | 114962 | ||
Dear EDB, I am sorry if you were offended by my willingness reply to another user on the forum. I hate to state the obvious, but, is'nt the purpose of forum such as this a place to reason over and discuss Scripture? I have not obseved any rancour from those whom I've been communicating with. In fact it has been polite christian fellowship. I'm sorry brother Ed, but I think your alarum is not grounded in reality. Have no fear, I am as interested in unity among the family of God as you are. Your brother, John |
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