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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 71478 | ||
John 1:1 What basis in the greek is there for "and the word was a god.” Joh 1:1—“and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)” Gr.(kai the·os' en ho lo'gos) 1808 “and the word was a god” The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London. 1864 “and a god was the Word” The Emphatic Diaglott (J21, interlinear reading), by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London. 1935 “and the Word was divine” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed, Chicago. 1950 “and the Word was a god” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, Brooklyn. 1975 “and a god (or, of a divine Das Evangelium nach kind) was the Word” Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz,Göttingen, Germany. 1978 “and godlike sort was Das Evangelium nach the Logos” Johannes,by Johannes Schneider,Berlin. 1979 “and a god was the Logos” Das Evangelium nach Johannes,by Jürgen Becker, Würzburg, Germany. Some translations render John 1:1 as saying: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Literally the Greek text reads: “In beginning was the word, and the word was toward the god, and god was the word.” The translator must supply capitals as needed in the language into which he translates the text. It is clearly proper to capitalize “God” in translating the phrase “the god,” since this must identify the Almighty God with whom the Word was. But the capitalizing of the word “god” in the second case does not have the same justification. The New World Translation renders this text: “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” True, there is no indefinite article (corresponding to “a” or “an”) in the original Greek text. But this does not mean one should not be used in translation, for Koine, or common Greek, had no indefinite article. Hence, throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures, translators are obliged to use the indefinite article or not according to their understanding of the meaning of the text. All English translations of those Scriptures do contain the indefinite article hundreds of times; yet most do not use it at John 1:1. Nevertheless, its use in the rendering of this text has sound basis. (continued) |
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2 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 71479 | ||
Part 2 First, it should be noted that the text itself shows that the Word was “with God,” hence could not be God, that is, be the Almighty God. (Note also Joh 1 vs 2, which would be unnecessary if Joh 1 vs 1 actually showed the Word to be God.) Additionally, the word for “god” (Gr., the·os') in its second occurrence in the verse is significantly without the definite article “the” (Gr., ho). Regarding this fact, Ernst Haenchen, in a commentary on the Gospel of John (chapters 1-6), stated: “[the·os'] and [ho the·os'] (‘god, divine’ and ‘the God’) were not the same thing in this period. . . . In fact, for the . . . Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ ([ho the·os']; cf. Joh 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (cf. Joh 14:28). But that is only hinted at in this passage because here the emphasis is on the proximity of the one to the other . . . . It was quite possible in Jewish and Christian monotheism to speak of divine beings that existed alongside and under God but were not identical with him. Phil 2:6-10 proves that. In that passage Paul depicts just such a divine being, who later became man in Jesus Christ . . . Thus, in both Philippians and John 1:1 it is not a matter of a dialectical relationship between two-in-one, but of a personal union of two entities.”—John 1, translated by R. W. Funk, 1984, pp. 109, 110. After giving as a translation of John 1:1c “and divine (of the category divinity) was the Word,” Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [the·os'] is not the same thing as [ho the·os'] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” (pp. 110, 111) Elaborating on this point, Philip B. Harner brought out that the grammatical construction in John 1:1 involves an anarthrous predicate, that is, a predicate noun without the definite article “the,” preceding the verb, which construction is primarily qualitative in meaning and indicates that “the logos has the nature of theos.” He further stated: “In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun [the·os'] cannot be regarded as definite.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Other translators, also recognizing that the Greek term has qualitative force and describes the nature of the Word, therefore render the phrase: “the Word was divine.”—AT; Sd; compare Mo --Insight on the Scriptures Truthfinder |
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3 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | Morant61 | 71488 | ||
Greetings Truthfinder! Since this topic has been addressed several times, allow me to begin by simply quoting a relevant former post of mine and then adding a few comments. *********************************************** Greetings Isa! John is a Gospel. This is stating the obvious, but it is useful to remember why he was writing this book. His reason for writing was given in his own words, "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31) Therefore, John is trying to convince his audience, both Jews and Gentiles, that Jesus is God and that He alone is the source of salvation. With this in mind, John opens his Gospel with a prologue (1:1-18) which appeals to the current thoughts and ideas of both Jews and Gentiles. Jews at this time had personified the "Word" of God to a new level of meaning - it was God?s creative power. Greeks had a philosophical concept of the "Word" as the creative, rational force from which all things spring. Thus, John creatively says things about Jesus (notice that he doesn?t tell us that the ?Word? is Jesus until v. 14) that would appeal to the religious and philosophical views of both Jews and Gentiles. William Temple describes John 1:1-14 in this way. The Logos, he says, "alike for Jew and Gentile represents the ruling fact of the universe, and represents that fact as the self-expression of God. The Jew will remember that ?by the Word of the Lord were the heavens made?; the Greek will think of the rational principle of which all natural laws are particular expressions. Both will agree that this Logos is the starting point of all thing." However, John?s purpose is to take them beyond this point and demonstrate that Jesus Himself is both the ?Logos? and God. Thus, throughout John escalates the statements made about the Word. Each one revealing more about the true identity and nature of Jesus. 1) In the beginning was the Word - v. 1: The Word was eternally existent. He did not come into being at any particular point in time. He has always been. 2) The Word was with God - v. 1: Not only is the Word pre-existent, but the Word is in an intimate face to face relationship with God. 3) The Word was God - v. 1: Not only is the Word pre-existent, not only is the Word in an intimate face to face relationship with God, the Word is God. 4) The Word is the Creator of all things - v. 3. 5) The Word is the source of life and light for all men - v. 4. 6) The Word was not recognized by the World - v. 10. 7) The Word was not received by His own creation - v. 11. 8) The Word makes those who do receive Him Sons of God - vv. 12-13. 9) The Word is Jesus, God incarnate - v. 14. Thus, there are two answers to your question about how the Word can be with God and God. a) The statements simply escalate our knowledge of Jesus. There is not necessarily any significance to be made to His being both with and being. John is simply bringing people along slowly to a higher understanding of who Jesus is. b) The statements make complete sense in the context of the Trinity. Most Christians believe that within the One Godhead, there are three distinct Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.) If this is the case (which I believe it is), then the Word can both be with and be God at the same time. Additional notes: I read one of the Muslim web sites which tries to deny that Jesus is God, and they made two arguments with which you might try to respond. So allow me to address them briefly. 1) ?Theos? is also used in Scripture to refer to Satan. Therefore, it must not be capitalized in John 1:1. The simple fact is that ?theos? is the Greek word for ?god?. The context alone determines whether the passage is speaking of the true God or a false God. Depending on the context, it can be capitalized or not. John 1:1 should definitely be capitalized. John 1:1 is referring to the God who created all things, not a false god or idol. 2) The last phrase should be translated "The Word was divine." This is a very simple argument to counter for anyone who has any Greek training at all. The simple fact is that when a predicate nominative is used to rename an articular subject, the article is not used. So it is absolutely correct to say "The Word was God" without including an article before the word God. This should be translated "The Word was God" not "The Word was divine", nor "The Word was a god." So my friend, you will not be able to demonstrate from the Bible that Jesus is not God. *********************************************** P.s. - I had asked earlier, but I haven't received your response yet. Where and for how long did you study Greek and Hebrew? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | rferg | 71496 | ||
Good day Tim, I appreciate your point of view. But this is the same type of information one denomination after another has given the body of Christ for years and it doesn't make sense or add up. Your average person doesn't know greek or hewbrew and all the other information you wrote to prove your right. And frankly my mind is to small to comprehend that "being someone" and "with someone" are the same. But maybe you need to be a Pastor, super spiritual or a student of Greek and Hebrew. I agree with your first paragraph completely. In the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John they all start by proving the diety of Jesus Christ, that He is God (the Son) and that He (Jesus the Son) came from God (His Father-Abba Father is His name). Many scriptures seem to be comfusing because we keep trying to make them say something they don't, to prove the rightness of the denomination we are in. I'm not speaking to you but to all religious groups. Are we trying to prove the denomination we are in right or find the truth for ourselves? I have a different approach. You probably haven't heard this before so don't get to hasty. Just think it through. I have a limited education and have sought the answer to the truth about the trinity for years. I prayed and ask God to help me understand so I could love something or someone who was real to me. I recieved this word picture so to speak. I took a piece of paper and drew a line down the middle, on the left side I wrote earthly family on the right side I wrote Heavenly family, which stood for spiritual family. On the left I wrote the names of all the people in our family. Then I wrote the name of the Father God, Jesus -Son of God and the Holy Spirit of God, one on top of the other. Then I circled the last names in our earthly family and then the name "God" which was after the Abba, Jesus and Holy Spirit. After seeing this I asked myself a few questions. We have 5 members in our family and we are ONE family even though we have many members. There is a chain of command and we all have different functions. In our earthly family we are all born with the same nature (sinful) until we are baptized into the body of Christ. Then I asked myself the same questions about the Heavenly family. They (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are "ONE GOD" (one family) with more than one member. They have the same nature (righteous) there is a chain of command, the Father is superior to the Son but they have different functions. Like the earthly family their family can also be added to when we are born again we are now children of God (family of God). No, I'm not saying we are God's. I'm saying we now have the righteousness of Jesus Christ and being transformed each day. When we see the word God, Lord, HE, I used we should ask ourselves God who? We see them seperately at times and collectively (all together) Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) created the heavens and the earth. Prov.8:22 The Lord (Father) possessed me (Jesus) at the beginning of His way, Before His (the Fathers) works of old. 23 From everlasting I (Jeus the Son) was established. From the beginning, from the earlies of times of the earth. 24 When there were no depths I (Jesus) was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I (Jesus) was brought forth;26 While He (Father) had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27 When He (Father) established the heavens I (Jesus) was there, When He (the Father)inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28 When He (Father) made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He (the Father) set for the sea its boundary, So that the water shold not transgress His (Fathers) command, When He (Father) marked out the foundations of the earth; 30 Then I (Jesus) was beside Him (The Father), as a master workman; And I (Jesus his Son) was daily His (Fathers) delight, Rejoicing alsways before Him (His Father), 31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my (Jesus') delight in the sons of men. Apply this same principal to John 1:1 and it will make perfect sense. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Who was the Word? John1:14 (Jesus the Son of God) and Word (Jesus the Son of God) was with God. God who? His Father God. John1:2 He was in the beginning with God. Who was He (Jesus) was in the beginning with God. God who? His Father. When Jesus is baptized the heavens are open and the Father says this is my Son whom I am well pleased and the Holy Spirit ascends upon Him (Jesus) as a dove. Here we see all three seperately. This is so simple and not confusing (God is not a God of confustion) anyone could understand it even a child. It follows suit through out the bible and makes hundreds of other scriptures make simple sense. Sincerely |
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5 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | Morant61 | 71533 | ||
Greetings Rferg! Thanks for your response! I have read your posts on this topic, but I haven't responded as of yet. There have been many attempts to explain the Trinity, most fall flat unfortunately. The major weakness with your approach is simply this: Scripture is very clear that there is only ONE GOD. Your approach makes it out to be three Gods who are in one family, but Scripture says that there is only one God. The classical approach to explaining the Trinity is not really that difficult. There is only ONE GOD, but there are three distinct persons within that Godhead. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. However, the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. While we may not ever be able to fully grasp how such a thing can be from our human experience, it is the testimony of Scripture. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | rferg | 71540 | ||
Tim Can you explain to me who Jesus set's at the right hand of His Father when their is only ONE GOD? Either, Jesus is God or His Father is! And since there is only ONE GOD, and you say God is Jesus then who is the Father? |
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7 | John 1:1 and the word was a god | John 1:1 | Robert Nicholson | 71545 | ||
rferg: "you say God is Jesus then who is the Father?" Your question was asked many years ago by Philip: "Philip said unto him, Lord show us the father, and it will satisfy us. Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..." (John 14:8,9) As finite human beings we will never fully fathom the Godhead which an infinite truth. There is one God who is expressed in three distinct persons who are co-equal and co-eternal although each has a specific sphere in the Godhead. This is seen in many scriptures "The Father sent the Son to be the saviour of the world" (1 John 4:14) The Son took upon himself the form of a bond servant and was made in the likeness of men, and being fashioned as a man he became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Phil.2: 7 to 8) Moreover, Christ at his bodily resurrection proved that he is indeed the Son of God, God the Son and as you have mentioned is seated on the right hand of the Majesty on high. After the resurrection God sent the Holy Spirit into the world, not to speak of himself, but to speak of Christ. There is a real man seated at his Father's side and he is our Lord Jesus Christ who is God manifest in the flesh. There is total harmony in the Godhead. It is a serious thing to undermine the Diety of Christ. In 1 John2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son. I do not quote the above to label or demean you as a person, however, I believe we must pay attention to God's word concerning his Son. Peace in his Name Robert |
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