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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | DocTrinsograce | 195102 | ||
Dear Lookn4ward2Heavn, 1. "God hath decreed in Himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. (Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5)" --1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith (Chapter 3, paragraph 1) 2. See answer to #1. 3. See answer to #1. 4. You are equating determinism with the doctrine of the sovereignty of God. They are not equivalent. See answer to #1. 5. Deuteronomy 29:29 is a primary proof text that some information is simply God's business alone, not man's. I suspect that much of that is simply a matter of our limited cognitive abilities (Job 11:7-9; Isaiah 55:8-9; Romans 11:3; etc. etc.) All that is in Scripture is true, but not all that is true is in Scripture. Regardless, God forbids that some knowledge be sought out (Leviticus 19:26), certainly that most notably applies to the future, which God has fixed in His authority (Acts 1:7). If you have a genuine interest in the subject, I'd commend you to the following books that are in the public domain: Arthur W. Pink's, "The Sovereignty of God" http://www.sovereign-grace.com/pink/0-index.htm Dr. Loraine Boettner's, "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" http://www.lgmarshall.org/Boettner/boettner_rdp00.html If you have already made up your mind, brush up on the specific topic of causality and the general topic of rhetoric. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195422 | ||
Hi Doc, Appreciate your response although, being a parroted response (noted with all due respect), it does fail to answer the specifics of my questions. 1. I assume your answer is essentially, “yes”? 2. I cannot see where your response specifically address the question: If, as you suggest in your answer to #1, God decreed that the man would rob the bank, does that mean God also decreed this man to go against his preceptive (i.e. revealed) will? 3. It seems your answer affirms that a child’s rape is God's "decretive will." However, I don’t see where my further questioning is answered by #1, that is, God having decreed the rape of a child and having laid the command, "thou shalt not rape children," nevertheless, never intended for the man who raped the child to obey it? Or, to put simply, did God also decree that a man disobey the divinely revealed will against rape? 4. I don’t see how I am mistaking “determinism” with “sovereignty.” My question has really no bearing on the divine sovereignty. It does question the compatibility of God being true in his dealings with man in light of Him openly commanding and expecting someone to do one thing while simultaneously secretly decreeing and intending he do the opposite. 5. Your answer seems to be that your view of the divine decree is not supported in any way by Deut 29:29, it showing only that “some information is God’s business alone, not man’s”. |
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3 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | DocTrinsograce | 195490 | ||
Dear Lookn, Private opinion is typically worth slightly less than what you pay for it. That's pretty much the content of popular theology, too -- that is, of course, if it even warrants the term theology, since that presumes some degree of actual study. Speaking of presuming: We need to be pretty careful about that particular error ourselves. Even when we qualify our statements with an attestation of deference, the words we choose nevertheless faithfully carry their connotations. If we don't properly understand those connotations, then perhaps we ought to hone our communication skills. If we do understand them, then attestations to the contrary make us look disingenuous and confused. I can assure you, son, that I've studied the various confessions of the church at the feet of well qualified university and seminary professors. My understanding isn't simply a matter of subjective opinion. It was proven through a variety of academic venues formally validating my comprehension. My response was carefully chosen, answering your every question with the best precision I could muster. I apologize for lacking the ability to formulate or paraphrase a superior expression of the orthodox Christian doctrine of God's sovereignty than that rendered by the godly and scholarly divines of the past. I am what I am by the grace of God. Indeed, I'd commend you to the works that Phil Johnson collectively calls "theology from a bunch of dead guys." Again, I apologize for my inability to distill all that they had to say into a nutshell suitable for your consumption. Sometimes understanding only comes with a lot of diligent study. I was made mindful of king Ahab. Do you recall how he gathered to himself four hundred men to confirm his own opinion? Yet it was the solitary voice of Micaiah, that greatly discomfited the king despite the comfort he garnered from the many sycophants. Nowadays we can garner to ourselves all kinds of teachers who will support our preconceptions, scratching our itching ears. They've been so successful, most folks don't even know that the church has dealt with all these issues centuries ago. Neglecting the very tools gifted us by Christ (Ephesians 4:11-14), it isn't surprising the progress won at such great cost by the church has returned to just so much fallow ground. I've done what I can... let's move on. We can discuss it again after you do some reading. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195553 | ||
Doc, I don't see how this long response relates to my question. While your comments are off the subject, allow me to respond. My older brother (at the time he wasn't a Christian) gave me good advice many years ago and I have held to it: "If you can't explain it, you don't understand it." I sometimes have the opportunity to tell other believers to not just read the Bible or know it but own it. I tell them, it's not your Bible (with the emphasis on "your") until you, by faith (1) are able to get out of it and understand it for yourself what God is saying to you, and (2) experience the presence of God in the course of living it out." The Bible is not just to be read but also owned. My Bible is my Bible not because I bought it, take time (however short) to read and study it, have an intellectual (however lacking) grasp of it, “a bunch of dead guys” told me what it means, or I memorized and adhere to a particular creed, but because (1) God speaks to me through it and, (2) opportunities are opened to experience God through it. I love books. I love to read. I just finished reading, "Power Through Weakness," by Savage. Now I'm reading, "Following Jesus in a Culture of Fear." At the same time, I'm studying Muller's, "God, Creation, and Providence in the Thought of Jacob Arminius" (that's heavy reading for me!). I'm also studying the "Book of Hebrews" with some commentaries, including Bruce and Lane's (the latter is an awesome read). Sometimes I get into a (bad?) situation where I'm spending more time reading my books rather than the Bible. All that to reiterate, "I love books!" But I'm not going to read my books the way I read the Bible. Creeds may be helpful but it’s not the Bible. "Godly and scholarly divines of the past" may have their value but they are not divinely-inspired instruments of learning in the sense equivalent to those who gave us the Bible. I don't believe what I believe because Calvin or Arminius, the Baptist Creed, Westminster Confession, or the Remonstrant, FF Bruce or William Lane said this or that; I believe what I believe because God speaks to me through the Bible. Other people and books may help clarify certain things in the Bible, creeds may be a useful device to facilitate memory, but they are not determinative of what I believe. JW's often respond to questions by rote as if they have a teleprompter in front of them. As a result, they fail to give answers directly related to the questions. From my point of view, if I just throw up what someone else says, I'm acting no better than those who have joined a cult. You are correct to say, "Nowadays we can garner to ourselves all kinds of teachers who will support our preconceptions, scratching our itching ears" (that you said "we" leaves me to assume you also are susceptible). This may occur when one, rather than giving the Bible its rightful place, lines it up alongside creeds and the teachings of others. You also said, “I've studied the various confessions of the church at the feet of well qualified university and seminary professors. My understanding isn't simply a matter of subjective opinion. It was proven through a variety of academic venues formally validating my comprehension.” Unfortunately: (1) No amount or degree of learning can guarantee freedom from errors; (2) No belief held is absolutely objective; (3) To study the “various confessions” is not the same as studying the Bible. Since you advise, “We can discuss it again after you do some reading,” and my library is filled with books I haven’t yet read, I will refrain from asking you directly any more questions so as not to take up your time. |
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5 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195554 | ||
Doc, Actually the first line of my post above (#195553) should read: "I don't see how YOUR long response (referring to #195490) relates to my question." I mention this for clarity...just in case... |
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