Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can prayer change perfect will of God? | Ps 115:3 | BradK | 195047 | ||
Part 2- In regard to prayer and it's purpose, I really like- and it's one of my favorite quotes- what Oswald Chambers says in the first chapter of his book, "If Ye Ask": "Prayer is an interruption to personal ambition, and no man who is busy has time to pray. What will suffer is the life of God in him, which is nourished not by food but by prayer. If we look on prayer as a means of developing ourselves, there is nothing in it at all, nor do we find that idea of prayer in the Bible. Prayer is other than meditation; it is that which develops the life of God in us. When a man is born from above, the life of the Son of God begins in him, and he can either starve that life or nourish it. Prayer is the way the life of God is nourished. Our Lord nourished the life of God in Him by prayer; He was continually in contact with His Father. We generally look upon prayer as a means of getting things for ourselves, whereas the Bible idea of prayer is that God’s holiness and God’s purpose and God’s wise order may be brought about, irrespective of who comes or who goes. Our ordinary views of prayer are not found in the New Testament. When a man is in real distress he prays without reasoning; he does not think things out, he simply spurts it out—“Then they cried unto the Lord in their trouble, and He saved them out of their distresses.” When we get into a tight place our logic goes to the winds, and we work from the implicit part of ourselves. “Your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask Him.” Then why ask? Very evidently our ideas about prayer and Jesus Christ’s are not the same. Prayer to Him is not a means of getting things from God, but in order that we may get to know God. Prayer, that is, is not to be used as the petted privilege of a spoiled child seeking for ideal conditions in which to indulge his spiritual propensities ad lib.; the purpose of prayer is to reveal the Presence of God, equally present at all times and in every condition. A man may say, “Well, if the Almighty has decreed things, why need I pray? If He has made up His mind, what is the use of me thinking I can alter His mind by prayer?” We must remember that there is a difference between God’s order and God’s permissive will. God’s order reveals His character; His permissive will applies to what He permits. For instance, it is God’s order that there should be no sin, no suffering, no sickness, no limitation and no death; His permissive will is all these things. God has so arranged matters that we are born into His permissive will, and we have to get at His order by an effort of our own, viz., by prayer. To be children of God, according to the New Testament, does not mean that we are creatures of God only, but that we grow into a likeness to God by our own moral character." [Oswald Chambers, If Ye Shall Ask]BradK |
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2 | Thank you Brad | Ps 115:3 | omimotoni | 195067 | ||
Thank you Brad. I think you are making a very important point by the difference you highted between God's order and God's permissive will. Now, was the decision to add 15 years to King Hezekiah's life a change of God's order or God's permissive will? Please explain. |
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3 | Thank you Brad | Ps 115:3 | DocTrinsograce | 195090 | ||
Hi, omimotoni... Our brother Brad may have a different answer. However, I think he wouldn't mind if I jumped in here for a moment. Whatever has come to pass is, necessarily, part of God's decretive will. Consequently, the events of Hezekiah's life all fall into this category. Note that the revealed will of God is fully knowable to us -- for that is what we have in the Word. However, the decretive will of God is hidden from us and unknowable. (cf Deuteronomy 29:29) I like the example given by Rick Reilly: "Suppose someone comes to me and asks if it is God's will that he rob a bank. I can tell him with 100 percent certainty that it is not God's will he do so based on God's preceptive, revealed will. If this person goes ahead and robs the bank then I can look back on that bank robbery was part of God's decretive will. I can also look to God's preceptive will after the fact and say with 100 percent confidence that this person has sinned and should be punished." In Him, Doc |
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4 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195098 | ||
Doc, Regarding the example... 1. Is it actually suggested that it was God's decree - "His eternal purpose, according to His will, whereby He has foreordained" - that the man rob a bank? 2. Would that not be the same thing as saying that God decreed the man to sin, that is, God decreed this man to go against his preceptive, i.e. revealed will? Even further, being an eternal decree, is it being suggested that God never intended for the man to obey a known divine precept? 3. Could not the rape of a child also be used as an example of God's "decretive will"? Can it not also be said that, although God having laid the command "thou shalt not rape children," nevertheless, God never intended for this man to obey it? 4. How can God, if the integrity of His being is to be maintained, will the opposite of what he commands, worse, never intend the obedience demanded in the first place? 5. Furthermore (and this question is the more important, which I would like a response), how does Deut 29:29 demonstrate such a teaching regrading God's will as proposed in your post? |
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5 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Searcher56 | 195100 | ||
This is going into the area that is off limits - Calvinist-Armenian. It has been discussed before, as well. | ||||||
6 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195101 | ||
Hi Doc. 1. Would answering #5 be considered off-limits since it does pertain directly to the understanding of a Biblical passage? 2. If the issue regarding the "divine decretive and preceptive will" is a subject that is off-limits, why, may I ask with no intention of disrespect, was the issue brought up by you in the first place? 3. If discussed in this forum, would it be permissible for you to direct me to is so that I may review the discussion (without any intention, on my part, to post responses to it or bring it up again on this forum)? Thanks... |
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7 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | azurelaw | 195105 | ||
Dear Looking, Just to remind you that it was Searcher who responded to your post not Doc. Shalom Azure |
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8 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 195123 | ||
Azure, Oops! I sometimes wonder why I wear glasses. Doc, please accept my apologies for the mix-up and, Doc, thanks for your reply, anyway. Searcher, let me be clear, however, that I am not presenting my questions on the basis of Arminianism-Calvinism debate. My questions are based on the posts read and reponses I receive for my questions. |
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9 | Decretive Will vs. Perceptive Will? | Ps 115:3 | azurelaw | 195124 | ||
Why you wear glasses? Perhaps your user name gives the reason. Just kidding! :-) Azure |
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